[Stonehenge]

In some of the chats I've been having with a few of you, there appear to be very desirable plowing contracts and less desirable ones.

If you consider residentials, restaurants, warehouses, apartment complexes, strip malls, banks, auto and other dealerships, which are the ones you like best?

Which ones are the least sensitive to timeliness of the push?

I've been swearing to get into this over the last few years but haven't done it yet. I'm hoping to start slow with some of the 'plums', and work my way to other ones as we gain proficiency and I gain staff to do the plowing for me...

Thanks in advance.

[Nebraska]

The reason we push snow is for nothing other than money, yet in sort of a sick way I do like it.

Back to the primary reason being money we search for locations where snow plowing and ice control is going to be deemed as high importance. Places where they realize that if their customers and employees can not access their establishment they WILL LOOSE REVENUE. ...

Places where you can do more than one push in an average snow fall......

[dan deutekom]

I like to have a mix of clients for plowing. Each type of client has different time lines for when needing to be cleared, and snow fall dosn't always cooperate. Most retail establishments must be cleared by 8:00 am 7 days a week. Churches become a priority early Sunday mornings. Warehousing and factories need to be done by 7:00am Monday to Friday. Apartments and condo's like to be cleared asap but usually are done during the day when there are less cars around. Residential I usually leave to last except on weekends when they are done before factories. I have an ambulance station that is a priority. If you have a mix of clients you can time your plowing to best suit the needs of the client during a particular storm. Also with a mixed client base I can have a larger plow route because there never is a rush to get all of the clients done by a certain time.

[Nebraska]

Welcome aboard Dan...

I post this as I sit and watch heavy snow falling out the window. We just got done putting the plows on. Being that it is Sunday many are more relaxed in clearing lots..yet our contracts do not differentiate between Sunday or Wednesday. Our goal is to maintain the lots in a passable condition during the duration of the storm with a final cleaning after the lot is empty. We of course charge each time we visit the property. Heavy daytime storms generate the most revenue.....Multiple visits are required. We always do the residential last unless it's 9:00 at night and it has stopped snowing....then the residentials get done and the commercials are completed by their required time.

[Stonehenge]

Dan and Nebraska - thanks for the valuable info.

Dan - do you shoot for a particular mix - 10% residential, 20% apartments, etc?

Having that mix does seem like a good idea, so you aren't in a spot where every site has the same deadline to be cleared by.

[dan deutekom]

It hasn't been a planned mix but more of an evolution. I base a target for new contracts on the previous seasons performance. If I feel we need more of a certain type of contract then that is what we target. My mix this season is 40% commercially/industrial, 30% retail, 20% condo/apartment and the rest is church/residential. This has worked out well this year. Also we do not do call ins during a storm until all of the regulars are finished even if we are right next door.

Nebraska we too keep the lots passable during the storm but this mix gives me the flexibility in timing to serve more customers during a storm with acceptable performance levels.

[Pelican]

I run 2 trucks plowing, I plow almost 100% residential with my truck and send a driver to a local Highway Dept. with the other. That work is by the hour. I've found that residentials pay quicker and more reliably than commercial accounts, at least in my area. My accounts are close together, about a minute apart, sometimes less.

I've got 2 small commercial lots that get full service, with salt included. The salting helps makes up for winters that yield little snow.

[NorthBrook]

Pelican-

I have a similar situation. I have two trucks with 90% residential, 10% commercial. However, I greatly desire the commercial accounts for the very reason you stated-SALT. With the past 2-3 winters being weak at best, salting commercial lots may have kept my operation afloat.

[outsideguy]

dr's offices, nursery schools and apt complexes. grocery stores, hair salons and restaraunts/pubs. places you know people have to go even in snow. sell your ice management. sell safety. it works.

[Nebraska]

We had two decent years in 2003 and 2004 for snow... This year is another story. Three snowfalls for an area that averages about 9 per season. Guys talk about seasonal contracts but they are rare in our area. Moral of the story: It's the icing on the cake. I see too many guys trying to grow their business off snow and this is defininitely not the locale.

[outsideguy]

i posted winter work ideas on forum too. check if you like. good luck

[GLAN]

It's impossible for everyone to be first. There fore........impossible to get everyone done right after the last snow flake falls to the ground.

Need a mix of plowing customers.

I read in the beginning where you charge per push....Some pushes are more than others......so how do you determine? 6 inche storm can be pused once or twice. So which is it?

I charge by the inch....... A set minimum fee for the first 3 inches then additional $ per inch. All my contracts get salt. Pending the storm they may get a pretreatment of salt at the beginning so that we can get under the snow pack left from cars driving over it. Salt it again after final push.

I have this one block area that is very very nice......An Assisted Living, a nursing home, small office building with a restuarant that the office pays me to plow so they can use some of parking during the week. There is an idependent building being built. I will get that as well.......and I do landscape maintenance to all but the nursing home.....though we work on them every year, they will crack soon enough. It's a very nice tight grouping. Takes a guy and myself 3 - 4 hours to plow 1x like 4 inches or less.

I have another Assisted Living.....close by, same outfit. 2 small stops and 2 churches.

The health care facilities take priority...And we just have to be aware of the places we do and their operating hours.

In addition to that....We do a McDonalds, strip mall and a wharehouse that we are sub contractors for.

This last storm we had which was realy nothing, go through the motions plowing and scrape some ice, Salt/Sand everyone.....Suppliers don't keep around much salt this late in the season. Guy that works with me and myself just under 9 hours. I am the one with the full bed salt spreader.

Snow events that I only have to spread Salt. I can hit all the stops, spread salt and be done in about 3 hours.

One of the Assisted living is on contract for plowing, salting is extra. The monthly payment I get on the contract has been pretty much in line had I charged for each storm plowing.


Probably the worst thing about is not getting any sleep. I am so sleep deprived. I fall asleep in my desk chair. I have fallen asleep just blinking at the dinner table. LOL, why am I complaining. I been like this for years........I cat nap...... Best sleep I get when I can is during the landscape season, rainy days in the middle of the day.

[olderthandirt]

I also charge by the inch not the plow. My contracts start at 2" and I have a set price, IE. $50 for the first push the second time through I charge $45 and the third time through would only be $40. My price drops by $5 each return trip. This allows me to #1 gain new customers becouse they feel they are getting a price break #2 It allows me to come back more often to push LESS snow which is easier on the trucks, thus equipment savings. Plus the salting is always extra and most places around me only want it around the doors or from the area thats most walked to the doors. Such as from the pumps to the front door, so I get a premium price for selective salting. Also one of the most profitable parts is the hardest but takes little time and thats sidewalks. we do them with shovels, blowers or atv's with plows on them and charge by the ft. Most all sidewalks in residentials get ice melt to protect the home owner from liability plus its the law that says they must be cleaned.

Mac

[nebbe]

The one thing that no one has touch on in this discussion is that the equipment that you use is also important to look at. Each piece of equipment has its own production rate. Use a truck and a 6' blade with standard controls you will not clear as fast as a truck with a 7.5' blade. We use trucks, skid steers, exmark lazer w/blower for condoes and loader backhoes w/pushers all clear at different rate. I guess I will get to the point in snow removal have a good mix of equipment, acoounts, and billing practices ( hourly, by the push, and by the inch) I have been able to maximize my revenue and profits. And also adding salting to your mix is a real money maker. I can go out and salt for 4-5 hours and make what we make on a whole storm.

Another pet peeve that I have with snow plowing contractor's is that you need to charge for your service. Ex:
operator base pay: 13.00
Labor burden: 30%
OT Factor : 10%
Equipment(truck) $15-20 hr cost (we inflate the cost because plowing puts more stess on the vehicle)
Overhead $25-35 per hour

Total cost $58.20 per hour constant (not portal to portal) that does not have any profit added to it yet.
So, I don't no how these guy around here can charge $50 per our for snow removal, Unless that feel that they have recouped all of their overhead during the summer months. I was checking the fuel last time that we plow over the weekend and my pickup drank $56.00 worth of fuel in a 13 hour period.

[Bill Schwab]

I don't know how anyone else does it, and obviously by location we no longer plow...But, we budgeted our entire year from the revenues we made in the dry and landscapable months. Then if we did get some snow, it was frosting for the cake.
We charged a dollar a minute, which, based from nebbe's assessment, was similar to how it worked. then, we did have 20% of our maintenance conctracts as year round pay as well. Every once in a few years, you would get that killer dump and the year rounds would go upside down, but I liked the stable flow of cash. The year round helped stabilize the roller coaster effect on cash flow, while the per occurance accounts added frosting to the cake.

I don't miss it one single bit. there is nothing like having my wife next to me all night long, seeing the kids off to school, and going to thier soccer games, track meets and 1/4 midget races.