[Adam.Youens]

Hello Everyone,

I’m new to this Forum and fairly new to this area of expertise, I’ve worked for a landscaping company in the past and have done all of my parents, neighbors, and friends landscaping from creating simple gardens, interlock walkways, retaining walls, laying sod, but now I would like to get into this more seriously. I was hoping that I could get some of your opinions on some ideas that I’ve had. First of all I currently live in Toronto Ontario but am considering moving to the Peterborough area which is a little more north from where I currently am or packing everything up and moving to Alberta to begin this business. I’ve been thinking of going straight for it and purchasing a Truck, Bobcat, Mini Backhoe (by Bobcat) and larger backhoe/front end loader, a dump trailer or small dump truck, equipment trailer, and some other misc accessories. My plan is to start off with just one employee as my right hand man and then depending on how business goes to hire another employee or two. I’m sure people will have lots of questions because I don’t go into too much detail but let me know what else you would like to know. I’m sure many of you will think I’m getting too much stuff right at the beginning and that may be, but that’s why I am looking for some advice. I really want to thank all of you for taking the time to read this. I hope to hear from you soon.

Adam

[synner]

Good evening Adam. Lots to think about jumping into the biz. We've been at it just over 10 years now. We're located in London but do a lot of work in KW, the GTA, Barrie, Kleinburg, Newmarket and so on.

The skidsteer used to be the Swiss Army pocket knife of landscapers. Now the mini or compact track loader is putting up a good fight for the title as well.

If I were starting again I'd get a slightly used 5 ton dump truck, International or Isuzu, a really strong float trailer and a new skidsteer or mini track loader. Then you and one good assistant can tackle all kinds of work and not be burdened with all kinds of equipment and overhead.

I use a backhoe all the time, but we just rent one when required. Not enough demand for us to own one.

Hope this helps, I'm just scratching the surface.

[agla]

I'm curious why you would want to move to unfamiliar teritory to start out. Then to add a huge overhead for a two man business on top of that seems like adding more burden than success.

But, the biggest assumption that new guys have is their ability to hire a right hand man. Any of these guys will tell you that it is very hard to hire good help even when you are well established. It is darn near impossible to do so when just starting out.

I don't mean to be negative, but it would be better to work in a familiar area, have your overhead grow with you, and don't count on good help.

How much do you expect to gross per month in your first year?

[Stonehenge]

Really take a look at how much you expect to be using your equipment, the daily cost of that equipment (including the cost on the days you don't use it), and compare that to the cost of a rental. And keep in mind that the rentals are always going to be functional - you break yours and you have to spend to fix it.

In a nutshell, spending that much on equipment when you can't possibly use it all everyday is a step in the wrong direction.

I don't really have any questions - I presume you know what you're doing. If you don't, feel free to ask more questions.

[synner]

the cost on the days you don't use it

this drives me absolutely nuts every time a piece of equipment is sitting at home or at the yard - sitting costs $ doesn't make any

I know of a landscaper in the Toronto area who buys exactly the equipment/tools/vehicles for what ever project (large scale projects mind you) they are currently working on. As soon as the project is over if they don't need some or any of the tools and equipment for the next project they sell it. No carrying it, no old stuff, no rental fees racking up. Different take on it but it seems to work for them.

[Adam.Youens]

hi guys, I Really appreciate your comments. I guess going and spending all that money at the beginning likely isn't the best idea, it was just a thought that I had. In regards to how much money I'm expecting to gross every month, well I have no idea. I'm not sure what a average amount is, I'm very new to the whole starting a new business idea and have alot of details to iron out before making any decisions. What do you think I could expect in the beginning? Also what is a rough idea of what a succesful business would make. I was also thinking of getting into a little arbourist business as well as landscaping and minor excavation. I Really appreciate all your help and I won't take any comments as being negative, I'm sure you are just trying to help me out and make me aware of things before a poor decision is made.
thanks again

[synner]

Every business and every region is going to have different market values/rates for average monthly rate. You might want to start with the landscaping if that is what your background/training has been in, once that is working and established expand into excavating and then once that works move to arborist work. Don't bite off too much in the beginning. You'll have lots to do before you know it.

[Adam.Youens]

What kind of rates are average for the common jobs.

[synner]

You learn very quickly that no job is common. About the only work that gets repetitive/common might be standard driveways/walkways or decks for builders in new subdivisions.

[sandim]

Adam

Congratulations on looking to take the plunge into your own business.

The biggest advice I can give you is start small. Don't go deep in debt getting all your equipment right away. Start out with what you can get by with until you grow. We didn't even have a truck when we started! We towed our trailer with our jeep wrangler!
Better to say "wow, I could really work so much more efficiently with X"
for those jobs you don't do regularly, see if there's a rental equipment place nearby that will rent that equipment to you, then factor that cost into the job.

Hope that helps!

Sandi

[LandArts]

Plus most rental places will deliver equipment to the job site.

[jamesn162]

hi...i am fairly young( late late 20's)..., i imagine you might be too...first off congrats...i really mean it. its not everyday that a person wants to up and start a business and that it great that you have this goal. i mean who doesnt like the idea of doing something they love and being their own boss but first things first......i would like to tell you a "joke" but most of the wonderful guys and gals here would say its not a joke but more of a fact. " Two things that are overrated; owning a business and natural child birth"......Alot of guys say they would never have started a business if they really knew what it really required. I am one of those guys, but thats the weird beauty of it. I can tell you i have been close to losing my family(never was home, thought i could do it all and no one would notice i was gone), house and credit more than once........ok ok no more war stories.......Lets get to the good advice..... Do Not Worry About Equipment(at first)...get a sharp spade and a wheelbarrow....find out rates of insurance in your area......you will need at least a DBA to get the insurance so you will need to file for one ASAP.....look into your states workmans comp for have a employee on the books....find out what "books" are....see if your state requires you to have a federal tax id number for your first year or if they will let you use you SS number.....ask youself how you will schedule work.......find out what kind of market you are dealing with........ask you parents to create fake jobs and price them out as you would if you were really going to bid them......ask yourself if you are going to be a design/build company or a mait company.......remeber your only a 2 man band and its hard to do both (i have tried)......and found my niche but it took 8 years and alot of $$$$ wasted. This is some of the basic stuff you have to sort out on paper before you can evething think about a 1200 skidsteer payment and how much money you will make each month etc etc

The last FACT you seriously need to understand is that just because you love landscaping and hardscaping and using heavy equipment and being your own boss....DOES NOT mean that you will love or even being able to handle for that matter all of the expensive BSSS that comes with the sentence " i own a landscaping company"...........i dont want this to come off as me being a jerk i am just expressing my concern to another person who i can relate to because it wasnt too long ago i was in your shoes with the same idea you have and everything i thought was written in stone was written in sand. Lastly i am here for ANY question you have at all.......if you dont feel comfortable posting in the open just pm me or email me........and maybe i help you not make some of the mistake i made.

[jamesn162]

that was *mistakes not mistake

[sandim]

Good advice from James, I concur!


Also, see what your state has for business advice help. I know CT has SCORE but I'm sure every state has that.

One other fact not yet mentioned, be prepared to give up a LOT of blood, sweat, and tears...literally.

They also say it takes 3-5 years to figure out if you will be successful or not.

Just more food for thought.

[ianc]

Adam

I spent the first 20 years of business in the Toronto landscape market and have since moved to the Lindsey area (about 20 miles from Peterborough) to finish off my last 10 years in the design-build landscape market
Plus I have experience in the Alberta Market because I have spent the last 18 months on a design consult project in Fort McMurry

My advice:
Alberta: lot's of money to me made, experienced landscapers (employees) make (are you ready for it) $45 per hour + $200 per day show up pay. The problem is finding accomodations, The Albertan's are tripping over thier $$ there, even working at a coffee shop pays $18 per hour. In my consultancy job I recommended pre-fabing the hardscapes here in Ontario and shipping them out by Rail to Alberta so save on costs, still an option.
Peterborough: not to many landscapers there, because it is considered commuting distance to Toronto there is still work from the (Transplants - city folk moving up)
not a bad market with lot's of stone suppliers, if you decide Peterborough call me I can tip you off on suppliers.
Other Options: I consider Ganaogue my #1 choice close to hot markets Ottawa/Kingston/Bellville