[Rich]

Hey guys, I'm new to this board and find it very professional.

I'm 33 and I have been doing hardscapes for about 9 years now. About 5 years ago I started doing work on my own. Basically learning things the hard way but turning out quality work. I have most equipment including a Dingo. Basically everything I need for hardscapes. Several months ago I formed an LLC and bought estimating software. I do not advertise but work is brought on by word of mouth. My jobs are generally small to medium size jobs. I do all the work myself.

What I haven't mentioned is that for the past 5 years this was a part time gig for me. This past summer is when I really started FT. I have been reading up on some of the threads and I came across one post where some one said that "it would be retarded for a hardscaper to run solo". This may not be word for word but he may be right. He did not say anything wrong so don't think that I'm pointing fingers.

O.K. This is the deal. I love what I do and I have a true passion for it. I just don't know if I can make a living doing it! That quote sticks in my head for some reason. I am solo and my prices are of the higher end landscape companies but can't seem to profit the way I'd like. I own all of my equipment and would like to hire employees next year but insurance, workman's comp, etc. HOW DO YOU ALL DO IT? I need $$ in the bank before I hire some one. When do you know when to hire? I know I need the help especially since my bones are not getting younger but I need to be 100% sure that my worker is getting paid for his/her hard work.

Sorry for the long post, but I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. The only part that I see is that I'm 100% legal so the gov't makes out on my hard work. I really want this but I also have a wife and a mortgage and I would like to prosper.

[cutntrim]

We're all probably a bit mentally challenged to choose landscaping as a profession .

If you've got the will, and the skill, then you 'oughta be able to find success. I don't know anything about you other than what you just wrote, but for what it's worth a couple observations;

- Advertise yourself

- Don't buy equipment if it makes more sense to rent

- Hire a student for the summer to start. Take advantage of any employer-discounts the gov't may offer if you do so.

- Since you're onsite start-to-finish you may only require muscle-power and not a skilled hardscaper. A student can fill that need. Look for an athlete, hockey, football, wrestler, etc...

Good luck.

[Stonehenge]

Unless you've seen the bids for comparable work of competing, higher-end companies, I would question whether your prices are where you think they are. Solo operators are notorious for charging bargain basement prices, then struggling when they have to start bringing on people and paying for insurance and the rest.

Poke around here to see if you can get some ballparks on where you ought to be with your pricing to make a living doing this.

And whoever said it's hard to do hardscapes solo is right. You need at least one more person to start getting efficient.

[Dot Pecson]

You need to do some kind of advertising? Most folks here seem to be doing pretty well on word-of-mouth, but that doesn't work when you're just starting out.

How would a prospective client get hold of you? Do you use the Phone Book ads? Doorknob hangers? Postcard blitz? Whenever you have some down-time, you need to be working the sales pitch somehow. Tell your public what makes your service better than anyone else's. Why is it better?

You're specialty is hardscapes; photos work well in your marketing tools. How about a postcard blitz to folks in the higher-income part of town, in a zip code who own their own house? Make the photo on your postcard attractive enough for the recipient to want to maybe post it on the fridge or something.

Or you could do a flyer. Just make sure you include a photo.

Dot

[natural12]

Dot has the right idea. What I did when I first started out was had some very nice tri-fold brochures made. It had several nice photos of projects I did in the past plus some words on what I offered. To have them printed and mailed cost me about 50 cents each. I sent out about 6000 brochures to zip codes in my area to house holds valued over 300,000. This was 7 years ago so you may want to increase the value based on your area.
I did not get a lot of responses but the ones I got were high end type jobs. The brochures were nice enough that people would hold on to them for a while. I would get some calls months after the mailing.
I did this periodically for a few years.
I would not shy away from spending some money on advertising.

Develop a portfolio to show customers. They are impressed with seeing photos.

Lastly, get a web page and do some advertising with it. Google adwords works well for me. A lot of people do there shopping on the internet.

Once you hire some people you will be amazed at how much can get done. Of course, its another level of commitment but if you are going to do it you need some employees. I have three. I like to keep it small so I don't have as much pressure to keep the jobs rolling in.

Mike

[Rich]

Getting the jobs is not really the problem. My work is steady. Most of my work is segmental. For walls my prices range from $30 to $40 a FF and for pavers they start at $15 and it goes up from there depending on the paver, how many cuts and how much fill, etc. $15 is basically little to no cuts. I'm almost positive that I'm in the right bracket.

It just seems that after you figure in the materials, the gas for the machinery, sales tax (which doesb not really affect me) then insurance and any advertising that I have done (in which is not much either except for the business line).

Getting the work is not the problem for me. My guess is probably the speed in which I work. I do work hard though. I'm not lazy in anyway. I'm very meticulous. I know it sounds like I'm answering my own question but I'm still not sure at what point to hire. It's kind of scary for me.

[Dale Wiley]

Originally posted by Rich
I do work hard though. I'm not lazy in anyway. I'm very meticulous. I know it sounds like I'm answering my own question but I'm still not sure at what point to hire. It's kind of scary for me.

The point at which you hire is when you desire to make more than wages, make some real profit, and when you operate a real business instead of being a on the tools works trades man, who's income is limited by the hours you can work YOURSELF.

When you decide you may need an employee or 2 because your back is giving out, your knees are giving out, ( mine went at 38), and when you can no longer picture yourself doing the physical labor at 50. ( Thats' where I am at now, it comes in a hurry)

[Rich]

Umm, Well put Dale

[cutntrim]

Yes, you answered your own question.

[Raj Venugopal]

I get where Rich is because we're there ourselves.

One of the best wet masons in our town is a single guy with a pick up and a tow behind mixer. He hires for some jobs I think. The best exterior metal trimwork guy...same thing. His work is steady but the quality is excellent. Even in house construction, there's one guy whose homes are among the best around here...and he's on-site all the time with two other guys...with licenced subs for the things he can't handle on his own. He charges his prices and people pay it around here in all of the above cases because it's the owner/operator that's on site 24/7.

In my head I know we should have help, but it's hard to pay someone $x per hour to stand over my shoulder.

[AZTLANLC]

Different markets different conditions, but around here if you want to make a profit you have to hire help, people are willing to pay an electrician or plummer $100+ per hour (which has nothing bad bout it) but not a landscaper or someone mowing they yard.

[Terre]

Someone once told me, that no one else will work as hard, or accomplish as much as you yourself will. But they gave me a formula that I found worked in other fields.

If you cloned yourself, could you turn out twice as much work?
Probably. Assuming the clone didn't turn into your evil twin.

Could you sell twice as much work? You wouldn't want your clone to starve, or not pay his mortgage.

If the answer to question 2 is yes, then figure your gross profit margin on doing twice as much work.

Now, deduct all the overhead for adding TWO employees to do the work of your clone, then there is your answer. If it's a negative figure, you may need to rethink.

[PSUscaper]

If you can't make enough money to hire a employee, then I defintely think you will have trouble paying one.

I'm not sure how you cannot even afford to hire a employee. Yes, they are added costs upfront, but they are not astonomical. Not to say NJ is expensive, but I know its not cheap here, and the initial cost was under 5k. If you are a business and can't put out 5k, then yes, you can't hire a employee.

Think of it this way if you want. If you are carrying bricks half the time on a job, you are working as a laborer. What would you pay a laborer to do that job? What are you paying yourself to do that job? I bet you'll say something like $35 a hour. Well, if you can afford to pay yourself $35 a hour to carry bricks, why can't yo afford to pay someone else $15? I'll tell you why.....because you aren't even paying yourself $15 a hour. And if you say $15 a hour is pretty good pay and that is what you are charging for yourself, well, that is the start of your problem right there, your not charging enough for your work.

I was in a very similiar situation. In fact, I would say my story was exactly the same. I'm 33 myself, started part time, and have been full time for about 5 years. I remember days of laying 1000 sq ft patios by myself. And when I look back, I realize how rediculous it was.

Unless you are doing something that no one else can, you are going to have to hire help. If people can get similiar service for similiar prices, they are going to. You may think you are doing things different that others.....but are you really? I thought I was at one time, but being around other contractors and being on this site has opened my eyes. I do good work, and feel I do a better job than some of the others in my area, but in no way am I a pioneer in my field. I have to make a living like everyone else, and that means hiring employees. It just won't work any other way, and the numbers prove that.

This year has been my first truly successful year. It took years before the pieces all fell into place. I'm thinking that you are getting frustrated already because you haven't seen any return. I did too. It takes time to get established. I've invested in good advertising, good marketing, a good employee, good equipment, etc. etc. But it took 5 years to get all that in place.

I would take a good long look at your numbers. Few contractors do until it is too late. You have a good start finding this site, but you can't learn everything here. There are a lot of suggestions here on where to find help, whether its books, websites, consultants, etc. Do a search, look them up, and use them.

The big question still though is whether or not its worth it. That depends on what you value. We have one person here who is 21 and wants to be running a 10 million dollar company in 5 years. Thats what makes him happy. We have other people content running 300k business's for the rest of their lifes, that's what makes them happy. Some people are content living in a 2 bedroom ranch. Others want a 6000 sq ft estate. Those choices are soley up to you and what you value. But, the bottom line is, that in this business, if you want more, you have to do more, and without the help, you can only go so far.

If you can't make a living doing it, and don't want to live a life with ups and downs, then perhaps being in business, and that is any business, is not for you.

I've worked for other companies, and could be making more money with a lot less headaches. I just prefer not too. I like what I do, I like being in charge, and love being part of it all. I get called a fool often, but have stuck to what I do best, and what I enjoy. Hopefully, as it has this year, it will pay off in more that just mental rewards of doing a good job.

One more thing. You state that you need money in the bank to hire a employee, but at the same time, state that you own all your own equipment. Perhaps this is one issue you need help on.

Cash flow is critical to this business. Instead of 'owning' everything, perhaps you should be leasing/making payments on this equipment and using the cash that you paid for it to pay for a employee. Better yet, maybe you shouldn't even own/rent this equipment, and at this stage, be renting it and freeing up the cash to pay a employee. Who even knows, maybe you shouldn't even be renting equipment and should be using a shovel to dig that hole instead of a excavator. If you only have one job this week and have plenty of time to do it, why spend money on renting a machine on doing something that you could do yourself, or.......be paying a laborer $15 an hour to do in 6 hours ($90) or renting a machine ($200) for the day because its just you and dog gonnit if your goning to dig that hole yourself!11 (I can, and I'm sure others will also, go on and on and on about how inefficiant one man crews can be).

Start telling us some more about your cash flow and where it is going and we can probably figure out why it is you can't afford to hire a employee. This all has nothing to do with landscaping, this has to do with running a business, any business.

Look forward to hearing some more, and perhaps it can be made to be 'worth it' with some help.

[mrusk]

If you can not figure out how to make money solo, DO NOT ADD employees. Figure out how to run a one man business before you have people dependent on you for their livelyhood.

I'll be honest, i hired to many guys to fast and went into large jobs without a game plan. I went from solo one year, to 5 guys and 2 crews the next. This all happened before i figured out how to run a profitable solo company.

My proablems really were not with the employees. The proablems are with not charging enough and not having a good game plan for the job. If you are trully doing work thats better then 99% of the compeititors out there, you need to be the most expensive guy out there. It takes alot longer to build a great paver patio vs a good paver patio. You need to get paid for that.

Its tuff to charge what your worth. This is my 3rd year and i am just now starting to figure out the correct way to price things. Most of all i finally have the profolio and reference behind me to feel comftable asking top dollar.

[johnkeegan]

I used to think I could do the work better and faster than anyone else but age and humility have allowed me to realize that's not necessarily true. This was real blessing. Now I have employees that can do the hands-on work as well as me, although sometimes using different means-to-an-ends.
This has freed me up to do what's more important to the company, which is to focus on design and estimating and customer relations. I now return calls and designs/estimates much faster. This change has also allowed me to concentrate on evolving and growing the company. I'm much more valuable to the company in these areas than digging a hole or stacking stone.
The more I've stepped away from the hands-on work, the more the company has increased profits. Not a coincidence I'm sure.
As a side note, now that I'm not trying to do 40 hours of physical labor AND 40 hours of mental labor - per week, I also have more energy to deal with another task that is uniquely my responsibility- that of being a parent. My proudest accomplishment every summer is that I've been able to take six 3-4 day long weekends plus 9 straight days in the first week of July and go off camping with my kids. Priceless. And all the time the company continues to turn a profit....
Hard to do that without employees.