[PSUscaper]

"I know I need the help especially since my bones are not getting younger but I need to be 100% sure that my worker is getting paid for his/her hard work"

Just on a side note. I agree that as a buiness owner, we are concerned with the well being of our employees. That is a responsibility we take, and in no way am I saying its right to not pay someone for work they have done or reward them when a reward is do.

However, what I will also say is that as a business owner, I do not feel 100% responsible for my employees well being. I could be wrong, but I don't remember any organizations I've joined that, when I run out of work, they financially take care of me.

When a empolyee works for you, they too are taking a risk. Yes, it is our job to take care of them, but it is also are own job to take care of ourselves. If I run out of work, and can't keep someone on the payroll, it is not the end of the world. They took the job, they made the decision to work, and they too are responsible in some sense.

I just get the feeling here like rich is thinking you are married to a employee 'til death' do you part. There is no shame in letting someone go because you just don't have the work or money. Its not a good feeling, but the world goes on.

If you are that worried about hiring someone and keeping them fully employed, why don't you at least hire a part timer or explain to the person that you may only have 1-2 months of work and after that you may not have anything else for them. There are people out there willing to take a chance for you......Just as you are willing to take a chance with them. You just have to take that chance first to find that out.

[site]

If there is a solid demand for your work yet you are not making enough money you are working too cheaply. Never mind what the competition charges- bid jobs to make good money. Don't be bashful. Charge a lot. As for employees why not try it with some temps when you get the right job. It's an expense like any other so it wont complicate your accounting too much. Employees are always a pain, but without them you are not a business owner you are an overpriced overeducated laborer.

[Dale Wiley]

PSU and I were firing salvos at each other last week, but I think his 2 posts are some of the best I have ever read on this particular subject, and that anyone in the solo situation would be wise to read them, print them out, and then read them until they could recite them verbatim.

Now for mrusks comparison that you need to run a profitable solo business before you coudl run a company.. I submit there is NO relationship between the parallels of the 2 business's, that running a solo operation is going to prepare you for haing employees, additional taxes and other rencumberments.

We have all seen the solo operators who are great craftsmen, and they truly are. But they are just that solo, and limited to making what they can in an 8 hour day or more, If your market allows you to make $ 50 per man hour your making $ 400 per day.

You will have overhead, and you do have overhead of at least 20% per day, so your down to $ 320 per day. Now unless you have complete 100% labor efficiency you will have additional time that supports your job activities of at least 1 hour per day that needs to be baked into the cost as well.

If you are in a 9 month market, you need to make all your money in that time frame. You also are limiting any upward movement of your income by the finite number of hours you have.

If that all pops your clutch, then you have got it made. But solo is not going to help you have a good quality of life, nor will it provide for your retirement. And if you body should give out, and it will, who makes the money when the butcher is carving on your back, knees,shoulder, appendix..etc etc...

[mrusk]

Dale-

You must of missed my point. If someone can not make money running a solo business there is a proablem. They are either pricing to low, have no idea how to run a job efficently, or something else.

Adding employees will just run them futhur into the hole.

[Matt Kulp]

Originally posted by mrusk
Dale-

You must of missed my point. If someone can not make money running a solo business there is a proablem. They are either pricing to low, have no idea how to run a job efficently, or something else.

Adding employees will just run them futhur into the hole.

mrusk,

I agree and disagree with your statement. I agree that there are some trades where you can make money solo and do alright. But, this post was initiated by someone questioning hardscape work. I disagree that you can go solo installing hardscapes and make much money. There are way too many variables in a install that you need an employee to make it efficient. One guy will just slow down the process and charging more, I believe, is not going to solve the problem. You will eventually price yourself out of the job and limit the scope of project you will be able to handle in a timely manor. Having an employee on site while you run for unexpected supplies and to take care of tasks that are not "skilled" will lead to unavoidable efficiency that a solo man would not have. I don't know about the wrest of the people on here, but I learned to run jobs efficiently by having employees and trial and error. To say that adding employees will run them further into a hole is incorrect. It could be the best thing to do to get himself out of a hole. I would guess to say that most of us on here entered the bus. solo, but I would also guess that it was not by doing just hardscaping. I would also guess that the companies that entered only the hardscape market did not do it solo.

I don't want to argue, but you made a statement that sounded like you have to learn everything about business before you hire employees. When in fact, you learn more about running a business when you are not working in the business as much.

JMO

[dan deutekom]

I think that if you run solo you can earn a living (and a very good one at that) but you are always in a very precarious position. You have to produce always and there is no cushion. If you are sick the cash flow stops, if you hurt yourself, the cash flow stops, go on vacation, the cash flow stops etc. You also severely limit yourself to the size and type of job that you can do. This limits your income. The minute you start hiring on help this starts to change. You can focus on growing the business. Production can continue while you do "non income producing" but essential duties that allow your business to grow and eventually giving you the financial means that provides security for the times that you can not physically work whether by choice or force.

Hiring brings new challenges and pressures but it relieves the pressure of always having to do everything just to survive and knowing that one minor physical setback can stop your whole way of life.

[Dale Wiley]

I don't want to argue, but you made a statement that sounded like you have to learn everything about business before you hire employees. When in fact, you learn more about running a business when you are not working in the business as much.

JMO [/b]

The E Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber.

The Entrepreneur, The Manager and The The Technician.

All very different people, different roles.

A solo operator is a technician. He trys to be a Manager, and has Entrepreneur visions. But is too busy being a technician to manager correctly, let alone work on his vision.


I am a great planner and visionary. I am worthless on a shovel, my employees know that stuff much better than I do.

I am a great equipment operator, but not so great that one of my employees can't learn to be that good or better. My system allows me to know where a job is at or should be at at any given time, the employees are privy to that information, so the job is usually on schedule.

I did a very poor job of trying to be the estimator, the operations manager, the book keeper and all that. I divided operations management with my 21 yo son who is doing one hell of a job.

My wife is now our office manager, and comptroller ,coming from an executive level position in the medical industry. She is already making MAJOR improvements and contributions to the business.

Telling me to get my out of the office, and go sell some work or make some deals, but get the work stacked up.... and that is what I am good at.

If your business is not growing and moving forward EVERY year, you will stagnate and getting "smaller" is the kiss of death of a lot of business's. There is one person in our town who has all the assisted living centers and there's a lot of them. He works solo mostly, drives the same trucks, hires guys under the table, his trucks and equipment is always dirty, but by golly he works cheap, and not 40 hours a week either, but a lot more.

Now when his body gives out, is there a business structure / model in place to allow him to keep going ?? Not at the same rates he was !! That might lead to business loss.. He's so low now no one even bothers calling on them to give them quotes.

Sustainability on a continual basis with profits in excess of passive investments.

I would pay attention to Matt's comments.... I have never met Matt, but I am intimately familiar with and one of the developers of the system he operates or partially operates under. It is one aspect of that system and culture / process that makes is painfully clear, that in order to survive and prosper in business today, your own hours must be replicated several times over in order to reach that sustainabililty.

I missed the point ?? What point was that ??

The best thing you can have in business is a sense of humility and as Inspector Harry Callahan so eloquently said " A man has to know his limitations".

I learned a long time ago what my weakness's are.. and tried to compensate for them in all the wrong ways.

If I can hire people smarter than me and pay them well... I just scored big...

If I can train my people well, give them the tools, the situations and help them develop a desire to excel, then I get out of their way and let them go.. I have just scored big as well.

[mrusk]

I think we are getting alittle off topic here. I do not think its better to work solo. I hate working solo. I have guys now and will never go back to being solo. It sucked trying to play all the roles.

When i was solo i struggled. Mainly because i was just starting out, new in business, etc. Then when i hired guys this year i struggled. I never really learned the proper way to estimate or run a business so of course i was not pricing things correctly. I think that is the biggest cause of failure for anyone in business.

[Stonehenge]

Originally posted by mrusk
Mainly because i was just starting out, new in business, etc.

This is your second year, right? I think that qualifies you as still being new in business.

[mrusk]

Originally posted by Stonehenge
This is your second year, right? I think that qualifies you as still being new in business.

3rd year. Things are starting to come together.

[Paul]

There comes a point in the landscape business when you have to put up the shovel and let others do the bull work. When you want that to happen is YOUR decision!

A small company can only support one person, a larger well run company can support more.

The real question is what do you want to be doing in 17 or 18 years working the ground or managing the company?

Others here say that it takes 5 or more years to really get rolling so that cuts your time to about 12 years. Most here don't know your market, availability of labor, quality of labor, your ability to manage a business, or your willingness to go into debit to make a company grow.

I don't know what market your, home owners, commercial, public works, ect.... but I do know you need more than one market, field or product to survive on. The larger the company the more fields, products or markets you need. I know there is a thread that I wrote on in the past about the ideal landscape company, it covers alot of this in a very short way. As a owner you have to be able to plan ahead for changing market conditions. Thinking way ahead of the game gives you an edge on your competition. Your company can grow and prosper with the right thinking.

[AZTLANLC]

amen to that Paul.
Being solo is less headaches at certain point. but that's it, the advantages of hiring help have being post it here by many of you.
The reason I went into business on my own is cause I don't want to be doing such a hard labor all my life not that I don't like my job is just that I will not be young forever also I like better being in the office, learning new things and growing my business that can't not be acomplished if I work 40+ hours in the field.
Even when I had help couple season I was afraid to take on big projects but Paul once told me Pretend that a big job is many small ones, how right he was not I'm doing the size of his projects but now I feel confident my guys can tackle most any job with me being there couple hours at the time.