[Malrex]

Hello everyone!

First time poster, have read over the site for a week--great info!

Well, perhaps you get tired of reading these topics, but I'm thinking of starting my own landscaping business and I think I just need a little nudge to actually try it.

A little history for you...I have a Masters in Environmental Science and focused on creek restoration projects and fish habitat. I left a dream job to move out to Pennsylvania (for the wife and didn't care for CA) and got a job with a landscaping business (the creeks out here are in decent shape-no job available). I've worked there for a year and have moved up the ladder to foreman for the landscape crew. Unfortanetly, things seem a little shady and to make a long story short, I am not happy how things are being run.

I was going to open up my own business with a partner, but of course, his last application landed him a stable job and now I'm by myself.

My Plan:
I would like to work solo for a bit, focusing on landscape installation, maintenance, and pond installation. I have a pick-up truck and various hand tools. I plan to rent equipment I need until I can buy, and I plan to purchase a dump trailer. I would like to operate at my home, I have plenty of room for storage (for mulch, topsoil, ect.). Eventually, I would like to get into design and build--for small residential projects. My wife has some cousins who could help me on weekends if needed.

In the future, I would like to hire 2-3 others, but would like to remain small. I am a little hesitant to hire people right away as I'm unsure how busy business will be and lack of equipment. There seems to be alot of opportunities out here, however, and plan to advertise from the various ideas from these forums and some books I've read.

I'm lucky in that my wife's father is an accountant and is willing to help me with the "how to's" of running a business (he helps my mother-in-law run a business). I do plan to learn these things myself so I can keep a close eye on the business.

I plan to get a business license, but wonder if that's all I need if I want to do design work for small projects (or do I need a landscape architect license too). I have a computer program to help draw and various books on landscape plants for PA (and have also planted a bunch and know what works--but still have alot to learn). I'm certified for outdoor lighting and plan to work on being certified in pond building (I love building ponds!).

I don't plan to do mowing, hardscaping (not enough experience with it yet, except using flagstone), or snow removal. Eventually, I may try my hand at selling myself for Christmas lighting decoration and storage during the winter (figured that may keep me busy for a month or 2).

Other questions:
1) Is running a landscape business by yourself doable (Age 34 and in good shape)?

2) Would I get a decent amount of work by just doing landscape installation (ideas the homeowner has for what they want) or do most homeowners expect a fresh design?

3) Is there some holes in my plan? I've been reading alot of books and plan to read more and take seminars when I can over the winter. I'm worried that withouth mowing I won't have enough steady money coming in.

Thanks for reading this far and any advice would be helpful.

[Ax Man]

Well, I'm usually not the welcoming committee, but Welcome to GTX!
I have found this to be an invaluble source of information ( and confirmation) I'm sure you can run your own business too, jump right in, the water is just right.
Look at your market area first. My guess is that there are plenty of oportunities nearby. I think that you have to make your business stand out from all of the "just finished high school landscapers" by offering a unique product.
I bet with your environmental background you can easily pull in a nice segment working pond/streams, and all of the landscaping that will go with them.
In my area grass cutting definitly gives me a base to work from, but it is also what I am trying to get away from.

At your old age of 34, if you are fit, and sane then I would think you can handle the rigors of physical and mental labor.

Personaly, I would skip the partnership for now, and get a handle on self employment. Good luck!

[Dale Wiley]

Welcome to GTX...the best site for green industry on the net....

I have a package of materials that I could send you if you send me your e mail address..I have sent them to many others here.

I am getting ready to start a website specifically designed to help landscape and green business's with numbers and other operational items. It will be fee based and the stuff I send out now with some other stuff will be there...

34 years old... Plan on getting some employees in the next 2 years and getting out of the field by 37 or 38 or you will be hobbling around like I do. You make more money that way.

Bio swale and wetland mitigation would be an excellent place to look for work, but those tend to be larger projects, and you will eventually need employees.

[familyguy]

Well...

I am 32. I have been landscaping on and off since the age of 15.

A full time career landscaper for 10 years, owned and co-owned my own company for 6 years. Dale is right about the falling apart bit. Spent last winter enduring back surgery. Have 2 hand surgeries coming up in December and January.

The only "hole" as I see it is the maintenance (mowing as you specified) end of the industry.

Maintenance is usually the steady cash flow with lower margins. Construction, designing, planting, and the like, are all better margin work but usually not as readily available (at least in the start-up years).

I never "wanted" to mow lawns. We were a garden care oriented company and I didn't need more work than what myself and my two helpers could do. ( I am convinced my hands are as bad as they are mostly from using pruners and weeding by hand for so long)

Steady money from the maintenance and little to no overhead. Just not big money.

However, I am "familyguy" for a reason. First were the twins. Then the mortgage. Then the princess (my 3 year old girl), and now noisy..( my 4 month old son).

A lot of financial responsibility and now... I am about to post my third thread about mowers. (We own 4 commercial mowing units)

We are more people as well now, because as Dale pointed out, I only have a few more years until I really start to fall apart.

So, here is my advice. In a nutshell.

Don't limit yourself.

I just read an article in PRO magazine about a company owner who went away on a vacation. His new foreman had a backround in water line repairs. Foreman took a job with the municipality doing a water line repair while the owner was out of town. Owner came back... what the $@#$% is this all about? Calls started coming in from the town. The foreman did such quality work that they were asked to do anbother one. Now, the "landscape" company has 15% of the total revenue coming from water line repairs. Owner comment was "what a godsend. we had 2 weeks of solid rain last year and the only thing we could do was our water line repairs. kept everyone busy for that 2 week period."

Sometimes, you'll attempt something you never thought you might simply because your daughter wants to become a ballerina and the lessons are ....expensive.

[Malrex]

Thanks guys for the advice and encouragement. I'm really excited and yet nervous too.

I plan to try and tackle a creek restoration angle or some other environmental project with the local env. groups at some point...or maybe I will just make creeks!

My weak points are hardscaping and mowing. I know how to use a push mower, but getting the nice lines and the things that go along with it..just haven't been given the opportunity yet with the business I'm with currently, and I want to do things right with my company. So maybe down the road, I can hire someone who has that experience and broaden the company.

The guy I wanted as a partner...well, he has offered to help me out in the afternoons, I guess his job ends at 2:30 pm (nice, huh?). He didn't want to abandon the idea, but he will be just an employee. We both realized that being in a partnership could lead to trouble down the road in some cases. Our current job, the older brother just "fired" his 2 other brothers as partners and there is alot of drama going on....good times.

As for my age and hard labor. Yeah, this is rough work, but I've always had outdoor jobs and have tackled large rocks and logs with the environmental jobs I've had. My back is starting to ache a little, but no major problems yet. I'll take that advice though and look to hire some younger employees down the road. I'm sure I will still be out there with them. Getting muddy and dirty is too much fun!

[justgardens]

Welcome and I too am back after the long season absence. Go for it. You certainly don't need a partner to start small but you will need some younger backs. As long as you are at the job site to supervise I suggest getting some one to help. We occasionally use a temp agency when we need an extra hand and don't want to add to payroll. They pay all the taxes and insurances on the employee. No fuss, no muss for you to get your feet wet with help. You have to kiss a few frogs though before you find your Prince of a worker. Find a niche. Water gardening is explosive. It also has many seminars available nationaly to learn more. You will find just returning phone calls, doing waht you say you are going to do, when you say you are going to do it will have them knocking your door down. Word spreads fast when you execute the lost art of customer service. Don't mow if you don't have to. Expensive start up costs, maintenence daily, repairs often and extra equipment needed to do it right. Do what you love and build on it. Hope your wife has a good job until you settle in. It may take a few years. It doesn't happen over night. You didn't mention a marketing plan..... you're going to need one.

[johnkeegan]

Malrex, I'd like to give a little different insight on mowing (cleanups, pruning etc.) I've been in business over 20 years, I have not mowed in the last 7-8 years but I did for the first 12. It does get your foot in the door and pay the bills. If you do all those thing I listed and do them professionally, while you let everyone know you do ponds, installations etc., the "cherry work" will follow. Now, eventually the mowing/maintenance work may become a headache as you try to concentrate on the design/installation work that begins to build up.
When you're starting up you need to get your name out there. Think of this maintenance work as being paid to advertise your name.
Yesterday I worked for a customer that started out 10 years ago as a $35/week mowing job. A few years later they bought a much bigger home and since then I've designed and installed approx. $120,000 worth of landscaping for them. And they just discussed another $25K yesterday. And they've lead to design/installations referrals of another $100K.
And I believe all that maintenance work has helped me become a much better designer. I know what plants work and what doesn't.
And I know how to design a landscape to minimize maintenance. Customers appreciate that and it fuels their desire to landscape more.
So if you look at all the "work in the trenches" as being paid to advertise your name and being paid to learn more about your craft, it ain't so bad. Good luck.

[mdvaden]

You are not too old.

We moved to south Oregon last year, and I"m starting from scratch at age 48.

Up north, I thought I was getting burnt out, and although I have a few aches and pains, realized that 70% of the issue was mental.

I've been at this since 1980. Using techniques and tools, I can do more, faster, that I could in my first years in business when I was younger.

In fact, I worked alone this entire year, except for temp help on less than a week's worth of days.

That can change, but the point is, I'm still succeeding as an older landscaper.

You mentioned mowing. That one's going to be up to you. Personally, I find it to be a drag. For a small company, it can be a conflict. Mowing is steady and scheduled. It can interfere with landscape installation jobs that fluctuate according to duration and weather.

What happens when you need to finish an install on all of Monday and Tuesday, but Mrs. Anderson's lawn and several others need to be mowed on Monday?

You might have to take any projects you can find at first to fill the gaps. Like mulching, or light-duty pruning if you know how to do it. Leaf clean-up etc..

You are only 34. No problem. Why wait one more day?

Go get your license and get some cards and flyers out there this week. You don't even need insurance until you actually work. And, find a company that bills monthly if one lump sum is too much.

In Oregon, you would have a big task on hand - tests, bond, insurance. Maybe you don't face that in PA.

By the way, I moved to Savannah, GA, on the east coast for 8 months and started there - about 9 years ago. Then we came back to Oregon. And although I could "slip" into the flow of some previous customers, I had to get the ball moving again. Fortunately, the girl who was issued our old phone number was glad to give it up, due to calls coming in. So I paid to have it switched.

So in a way, I've started up 3 times. I'm adding variety now. Started teaching tree care commnunity ed classes at the local college.

And I'm starting to make a very unique tree care and pruning DVD to release for sale in 2007.

Our website is actually starting to make over a $1000 per year too - first time it's made money, and it was this year that started it.

So you, in your own niche, will develop it.

But it won't transform without day number one in business.

Why not start tommorow.

[johnkeegan]

I agree with Mvarden on the age issue. I hurt myself more when I was younger and tried to bull everything around. I've had a few employees 40-50+ years old and they seem to miss less time due to physical aches and pains than the 20-30 year old crowd. (Or maybe we've just learned to live with it and have stopped complaining). And I see plenty of local contractors that work into their 50's and 60's. They don't work 12 hours/days/ 7 days a week. But they don't need to.
My father worked as a mechanic for 46 years and it seemed his health deteriated after retiring. My father-in-law is still a mechanic at ager 75 and seems quite spry. Perhaps it's just anecdotal, but in general, the general population suffers from a lack of physical exertion, not from too much of it.
In line with working smarter, I've also tried to acquire tools and equipment to make life easier and production much more efficent.
Now, of course, some people have ailments that prevent them from doing this type of work but that doesn't preclude a person with normal health from doing it. Just don't overdo it. Take breaks. Stretch properly. Ask for help. Don't take on jobs that might risk physical injury. Don't try to be a superman.

[Malrex]

Thanks everyone!

You all got me very fired up. I have decided to take a chance and do this!

I'm going to hold out with this company until I get laid off, I don't want to leave them hanging with the last few projects. But I plan to prepare and get organized and study study study this winter and start off with a bang this spring time. Will probalby get flyers out over the winter.

I've thought about the mowing issue. Bought a book today to study lawns, ect. over the winter. I'm not going to actively seek those type of jobs, but won't shy away from it. I figure if I could get a few jobs that would fill me up for one full day, and mow once a week, I could make it work.

I really appreciate the support and encouragement (perhaps I will curse you all in the spring ). This forum community is great and I'm excited to be apart of it.

[mdvaden]

In your studies, visit this particular arborist related website called Online Seminars.

It's set up so arborists can get online CEUs.

No cost right now.

Anybody can read them or take the test for fun.

I don't post it on rank and file forums where the entire populace can see the link. But this forums here is more of a pro type forum.

Anyway, this is the link...

Online Seminars Tree Articles

You can boost your tree care education with that.

I earned about 10 CEUs there myself.

This month, the first article is one I submitted, taken from my webpage, shown at article's end.

That earns CEUs too - writing an article.

[Mac]

i suggest you do not over diversify when you begin. Do a few things and do them with excellence. Word will spread when you treat your clients with professionalism. Also, i highly suggest you become friendly with at least one local, established company. To find that company, try to pair with a company that does things you dont and doesnt do things that you do. For example if you focus on residential maintenace, and there is a company that is predominantly commercial mainteance, you two can share leads that dont fit you and share advertising costs. You both win if you work it right.

[Malrex]

Mdvaden-

Thanks for the link. I will definately check that out.

Mac--

Good tip. Alot of changes have happenned with the company I am with currently. (Basically the brother who started the company came back full time and fired his 2 brothers (partners) because of the way they were operating things.) So now the place is a good place to work. However, I'm fired up to go out on my own and still plan to do so--too much of a bad taste in my mouth before he came back. I've discussed it with the boss and no bridges have been burned. Since I was mainly their pond guy, I'm hoping he will recommend me for any of those type of jobs he encounters, as I will be recommending them for any hardscape jobs I find.