[scl]

What we do, and most here do similarly, is calculate the costs of your materials, delivery, markup, labor, and any overhead and profit, and present as an estimate to your client. Then have your customer give you a percentage up front to start. We do a 20% booking fee, 40% at start, balance at finish + addons. Small sod jobs we will do in 2 payments due to the smaller cash amount. Dale's points are all pretty good, its not yelling, he has always given sound business advice. Good Luck!
Scott

[Dale Wiley]

MVFD-

You have asked for advice and we are giving you advice. Don't expect us to help you figure ways to get around the laws because that is not what it is about.

I find several of your statements contradictory.

Because I dont have the cash flow to do everything by the book right such as WCB and registering that is why I plan I to put every thing I can make back in to the business.

So you intend to bend / break the laws and roll the dice to get started ??

I dont want to take business away from anyone. I will do it almost at cost for the one reason I havent done enough lawns to charge out full cost.

So what you are saying is that since you have no experience you won't charge the same. Since you have no experience, do you feel you are doing the same quality of work, or will your client have to settle for a sub standard job for the lower price ??

My mom has seen many failed businesses being that she works in a bank. She has told me many what not to do's and things to be careful of. Why I need to do this, Why I dont need to do that. Things I shouldnt worry about.

So Mom the banker is down with skipping the insurances, skipping the WC, and not operating with a legitimate and reasonable cost structure ??

How are you going to operate this business with a legitimate cost structure when that "time" comes ??

I am glad my banker is not providing that kind of advice.

What I wanted help with as you mis-read was thow to calculate costs to bill the customer, whats are some of the going rates for labour, etc. Are you charging material + Install = Final amount or charging them 2 seperate costs? Do they pay for the material first then you install? etc.

I may be misunderstanding myself, but I thought I did offer that in previous post.

[jwholden]

In my parts sod farms will send a crew out to install a job. The landscaper or excavation contractor preps the site and the sod company comes in a blows it out in a day. Either with small rolls by hand or large rolls and a machine.

If the lots are small where you are there may be a 'niche' with builders who have you sod thier lots. Builders often take your price, regardless of the quality of your service, and compare it to others who use lower quality specs for the job. They will try to bring your price down to that level, even if your service is better.

Know what level of service your client (target market) wants.

Meet or slightly exceed the level of service your clients want or you won't get work or the work you get will be unprofitable because you are 'going too far'.

I'm going to tape those last two sentences on the dashboard of my truck!

[MVFD]

Sorry Dale I wasnt targeting you for the calculating. I was going back to what hardknight said.

Dale I checked on regeristing today and its 40 bucks. I will be doing that in the next few days. that is pocket change.

On my moms defense, She didnt tell me to go around the insurence she told me all about the insurence and why I needed it. Never once did she say to avoid insurence. She would like to see me with it. You were putting word in my mouth with that last post about my mom and skipping WCB and insurence.

If I dont have anyone else working for me I dont need coverage from WCB. I dont know about where you are, but up here business owners are not covered under WCB. It is up to them for provide themselves with coverage. and I have clarifcation from the WCB officer who is usualy around our sites.

As for insurence, Are you willing to pay for my insurence for the first while?

So tell me why what I would be doing is so different then a kid cutting lawns in a neighbour hood? does he have insurence? is he covered under WCB?

What Im doing is no different then that. A job here a job there. As far as Im aware in victoria, its not against the law to operate a business with out insurence. the only thing insurence is for is your own protection from gettin sued. and in canada law suits are very un common. Theres 50/50 ratio of businesses that are covered and then the others arent. I dont know about where you are from but I think the laws are fairly different. then they are here.

I respect your advice, Opinions, and information. You have shed light on things I will be planning to use. I have changed a few things that I will be doing to go about starting a company up.

I really want to end this debate we have going.

I will be looking very close in local laws/ regualtions and requirements.

Have a nice day.

And for

[start2finish]

insurance is to protect your customers as much as yourself. It is not expensive, having it based on a percentage of payroll or gross receipts, it is foolish not to have it. Here a base rate for 1,000,000 GL is less than $500.00 per year. They will even let you make payments on it.

One thing in business is overhead, now you need to keep it as low as possible, but there are necessary items to provide a quality service. Insurance is one of them. Would you drive your car/truck around without insurance if it was not legally required? No responsible adult would take that risk.

[AZTLANLC]

As a child I did many stupid things, this doesn't mean I will do the same as an adult.
You mentioned before you had people willing to work for you.
That is the reason Dale suggested WC.
Most of the people that succeed in this or any other business, are the ones that open their ears and listen to those that have being there seeing or making the mistakes you are about to do.

A person just starting in business can and has to charge the same then someone doing this for years.
Based on your experience your profit might be lower, but not your price.

So if you charge less because you have no experience and take longer due to the same reason, you are in a path to never be able to afford insurance and a legit business.
In that case why not ask your current employer for some over time to make extra income.?

[Stuck in NH]

You might as well skip this post, but I've got to write it.

I realize you are young & have the world by the b@llz. I did too at your age.

What saved me was a mentor. I think you will find alot of successful business people have had a mentor. I think you might find a few people posting on this board have one now.

You mentioned that your current employer has only you as an equipment operator, you don't mention if he has any other employees. Not that this is a bad thing, just don't want to assume.

So think about this guy you work for. Is he your mentor? Do you see what he has & want it for yourself? If so, what's the harm of talking to him? After all what you do on the weekend will effect him. It always does in some way.

He has an established operating structure (again I assume), why not open a sod laying division? Start it small & work it up. Figure in a commission schedule for selling the jobs or something. Maybe you could try out the business on his dime.

The first auto repair business that I had I bought into with the current owner. A few years down the road, I sold him back my interest & moved to a different city. Maybe that wouldn't work for you.

[MVFD]

Well If I started my own Sod laying business, It wouldnt hurt him, it would in fact Help him.

He is a contractor, so his employees consist of, 15 framers, 4 plumbers, 2 electricians, 6 Painters, 4 tile guys, and 6 finish carpenters. I was the only operator but I finaly convinced him to hire on another guy. so that makes 2 of us But I am currently training the new guy. we also have a few labourers.

With his company we do not pay someone to come and lay sod, he usualy does that him self or has labourers take it on. So what I do on the side wouldnt effect him at all. I wouldnt be doing it in the same subdivisions either. Plus he only does it for his OWN houses.

I dont look up to him Infact I got a job offer and Im taking the offer and leaving this guy. Unfortunetly I know longer have any trust in my boss.

It seem this new guy we hired on who has no experience is making the same amount as me. It has taken me 8 months (including my part time work) to get up to what he is paying me now. And he is not willing to pay me more at this point either.

The current job offer is, $25 / Hr, Work truck with tidy tank provided, Work phone Provided, travel time is all included ( for those who dont know what I mean.... When I leave my house till I get back to my house those are my hours. ) All the work is local and he just signed a 2 year contract so there is no shortage of work, 50+ hours a week, and the machine Im running is a 2006 Volvo 210, waiting for it to arrive from the factory. soon as it arrives I will start working for them.

This is where I want to be. I would be stupid to pass up an offer this good.

I still have my weekends off. I will still plan on persueing my own business, with making the extra money with this company I will be able to afford all the costs needed to run a company legaly.

I got the offer a few weeks ago, We sat down today to talk about it and work things out and that was what he offered.
Its all forsure now.

Alot of you guys may think Im being unfair to my current employer, but her hasnt been paying me what Im worth.
Im also sure you will say how can you be worth much when uve only been full time for 5 1/2 months? well Ive picked up everything quickly and its also something that runs in my family, so most of it comes natural. Im no where near the best that will not come for a long time yet.

I will keep you posted on this and how things progress from here.

[AZTLANLC]

Originally posted by MVFD

Alot of you guys may think Im being unfair to my current employer, but her hasnt been paying me what Im worth.

That is the same exact reason we want you to become a legit business, cause next time, I go and give an estimate, I want to charge what I'm worth, I don't want to see a proposal for half the price than mine, from a guys that is doing this only part time.

[4seasons]

the way I started out in the landscape business was to get a loan. If your mom is the director maybe she could pull a few strings for you to get a loan( assuming you couldnt get one w/o a co-signer). That way you could buy what you need and pay your taxes, insurance, etc. maybe even buy so equip. Dont get frustrated w/ these ladies and gentlemen on here, they mean well and between all them we can come up with a solution to about any problem! To answer about the kid doing side mowing jobs to make extra money-- he didnt know any better--- know you do!


Bruce

[MVFD]

LOL thanks Bruce at least you had an answer for it. I like it. lol

[TrickyDick]

Damn if I got an offer like that at 18 I'd be retired by now.

[MVFD]

lol... Well Ive certainly got some new ideas on things I want...

2006 F-350 Harley edt. Black with grey ghost flames and chrome package.... 75,000 CDN....

But hey. If I sell my truck thats a good down payment. and then make monthly installments after that.

I doubt I will end up with that truck, but it is a dream.

[MVFD]

I was talking to the owner of Volk Excavating (the company I just got hired on to) and he came across a very new to the market machine. Kobelco's Blade Runner ED190.

He has decided against the 210 and gone with this machine. There is no end to the work he will get with this machine. 1 machine that does 2 machines work. Not to mention there is not one other machine like this in our province.

I really stoked to given the chance to run the first blade runner in BC.

http://www.kobelcoamerica.com/FILES/.../470/ED190.pdf

Check it out, Its a whicked machine.