[SpruceNE]

I am a newbie in this industry. In the upstate area of NY, close to the NYC.
Try to start a landscaping tools business in the end of this year. Both wholesale and retail are considered. Retail is on the Web for sure. Talk to our state small business consultant couple times and still keep in touch with them to prepare business plan and all the documentations. I have a very strong plastic chemical and computer science background, have degrees in economics and computer science.
The first product I plan to introduce is an assembled concrete mold set using very durable thick commercial poly material. It is not like any one-piece plastic mold on the market at all. Each set can make 5 types of concrete blocks (two types at same time), total 10 sizes (different thickness). It covers retaining wall block, drive way/walk way block and edge block. Durability, accuracy, convenience, lightweight and portability are all the key characters it must have. This is not the advertising at all. this product is still in the patent process.
My main concern is if this product on the market now with almost same price like one-piece plastic mold, how large the market it can be.
I am not familiar with the hardscaping material market. I think it is very limited if only target individual homeowners. But, if very small percentage builders and contractors want use it, the market will be very attractive. In the posts here, I saw some Pros complain the concrete block quality and inconsistent color tone. So far I don¡¯t have any connection with PROs like the people I saw here. Any thinking and suggestion from you is much appreciated.

[PSUscaper]

With the price of concrete, making blocks on our own would just not work.

For one thing, in order to be profitable, you would pretty much have to have your own concrete plant to really start making money. I don't think many contractors are going to do that.

Second of all, making blocks with a consistant quality seems on a large scale is difficult. Hek, our local manufacturer just spent millions and millions of dollars on a entire new factory, with all sorts of computers, and well.......they still can't seem to get it right. Even if you molds are perfect, that doesn't eliminate the human error.......like minimum wage workers making blocks....also, weather conditions........you really have to be indoors and have climate control to make concrete blocks.

Last, its really not molds that is the problem. Block suppliers can, and do make good products....the problems are simple.....they run poor quality control, they try to produce more than they are capable off (speeding up the process or cutting corners to make them faster), and last but not least......this is the 'home depot era'.......people have learned to accept buying 'crap', so why should they make something better when they can sell a inferior product for close to the same price and make more money.

I'll never say its not a good idea, but its a market that you will have to create. The DIY'er is the only customer I could see really using it.

[Stonehenge]

I think this would be a very hard sell to most hardscapers.

As Penn suggests, just to be able to make a decent run of block to use, and to get the color right (and consistent), I'd need to build myself a plant. And even if I built a plant, I'd probably have about 10 years worth of learning to do in order to produce block good enough to use on our jobs, having to learn what type and grade of materials to use, pigments and pigmentation systems, curing times and methods, etc, etc.

DIY'ers? Maybe, but you'll have a hard time competing with the big box stores selling cheap block to those same people.

I wish you luck with your idea.

[Lanelle]

Another aspect of wall block production is the face finish. Most block has a soft or hard split face. This takes some skill to do and there's some loss from mis-splits plus another area of quality control issues. Maybe there are some "I-can-do-anything" type homeowners that would enjoy this challenge but I don't enjoy increasing the risk of losing money on any project.
Maybe I don't understand your product, but I can't imagine getting involved in producing SRW block or pavers. Given the industry standard for required load strengths, I would have to have an engineer doing a lot testing, and those guys aren't cheap.

[Bill Schwab]

Unless you want to enter into full scaled production, forget making block. If you make production runs, that is the only way you can make the block competitive. Think about it. Concrete is a commodity, sold on open markets. Folks who use it, are victims of those markets, so, your product costs are not going to vary much. You can pretty much tell by calling a few local ready mix lants and asking how much they charge for a yard of concrete less delivery. They have in essence what you will be needingf to make the block. From that yardage porice you can easily calculate usage quaitites and should be able to set a per block cost. Then call to see what other brands of block are selling for and you can see your projected margins.

There ain't alot of moiney in block, the money is made up on volume. The folks where we get our Keystone from also have the wall and paver contract with Home Deopt. They sell for about
what they sell to us for, then HD sells the stuff quite often as loss leaders, or for less than what we pay to. get customers in the door, then they make it up on other things. And, that is not working well for them, as Barzanni dropped doing installations for HD and branched off on their own.

Anyhow, I love ideas, this one, you need to tweek a bit or and rethink, at least so i think.....

[SpruceNE]

Pennscapes, Stonehenge, Lanelle and Bill Schwab
Thank you for spending time to talk to the newbie like me. Read lots of post from you people in this forum. Those make me think you are the some best Pros in this industry. Your each word of experience, suggestion and advice is much appreciated.

At first I beg you Pros pardon me. I am not really in this industry yet. My terms may be laughable and some of the wild assumptions may be ridiculous. Just in case, if in some parts the words I wrote here make you feel offended, please forgive me. I can sincerely say I am not meaning that. I respect you people I swear. So hammer me, if I am wrong. But don¡¯t be angry.

Pennscapes, thanks my neighbor. What you¡¯re thinking is absolutely correct. It will never happen that so many contractors want to use it. Now it is no market in contractor side at all.

These are what I am thinking:

Two types of contractors will never even try it for sure. One type is the Pros have enough projects to do. If I were them, I would not think about this too. The second type Pros have free time but don¡¯t want to make extra money. It may because no extra energy, no space at all or do not want to change the life style. I personally like the last reason if I can. :-)

The space and weather control issues are existed. For our Zone5 minus are more difficult than other areas for sure. But how difficult is always worth to think about it. Let me do this wild assumption:

If you have 2-1/2 CUBIC FOOT CONCRETE MIXER and 120 sets of this product-a pallet, less then $3000 investment. How large space we need?400 sf covered space may be enough. I did lot of mini test already. Let me use ¡®Crap¡¯ Homedepot 12x8x4 English Garden Style wall block and 8x8x4 drive way block as an example: all based on the retail price, the profit close to (1.5+1)x120=300 dollar per-round. Plus:

1. Pros have full quality control of the process.
2. Pros can let customer decide the color.
3. Pros can use exactly matching color for whole set of blocks. Wall block, edge block and drive way/walk way blocks
4. (For Stonehenge concern) grade of material, pigment and pigmentation system, curing times and method are relatively matured knowledge. I have confidence to dig them out and put into the instruction book. These concerns, in other hand, are good for Pros provide customers the choice of concrete textures.
5. (For Lanelle concern) face finish issue is another benefit to use this product. Because this one can not keep water at all. I noticed the homedepot version of fake flag stone, and all the one-piece mold products. No way for them to reduce face finish losing. Because the way they do that, especially for some rough surface like wall blocks, is wrong. The rubber +fiberglass backup is the correct way, but even that has to wait it totally set plus cost is so high.
6. (For Bill concern) To extend this product to a series is the so easy. Change base/cover or add some standard pieces will work. For the existing parts, can change inner surface liner in the future. That is the key I design this product. Save owner investment. I can even arrange the local Pros to exchange their existing parts through the website. Homedepot is the giant anyway. But personal taste they never know. :-)

Again, thanks for all of your advices. Hope can talk to you soon. Have a nice weekend.

[HardDaysKnight]

I can't see how you could pull this technique off in the way
you describe, However I applaud you for your attempt as an
entrepreneur. I would suggest you make prototypes of a few of the sizes colors and look into selling the patent. Maybe make your money that way. Good Luck, Johnny

[AZTLANLC]

In many parts of the country paver manufactures run seminars and often take people to the factory, I'd suggest going there so you can actually see that making pavers is not just about molds, I'm not talking about HD quality but a paver that conform industry standards, making the pavers ourselfs would not be cost effective at this point.
In México we can manufacture pavers with wood molds, because we don't deal with freeze and thaw, labor is cheap and also the quality control doesn't exist.

But explain to me how can I acchieve 8000 psi (pressure per square inch) or more making the pavers in house.

We are not trying to deviate you from your venture, just expressing our point, and honestly think that it would be hard to sell to contractors.

[SpruceNE]

Thanks HardDaysKnight and AZTLANLC too. This product just one of my planning items. The each word you put here is valuable to me. This one is really does not suitable to everyone in every place. As I said I have Plastic Injection and Metal Casting background. I am really interesting to make something the Pros can use.
Everything that can be used over 5000 pieces and allowable to be replaced by plastic is good to make mold tooling. Some special plastics are stronger and even last longer than most of metals.
On the other hand, I am also working on the efficient and low cost solar systems.