[Belisarius]

Here's one I get more often than I like: "Why do you charge for your designs? Other companies don't charge? Do we get the design money back if we install with you?"

I usually say that what I am charging for is a unique high-quality design (which is probably a lot nicer than the "free ones" who usually work their design costs into the proposal) and that, when I present my estimate it will reflect the fact they have already been charged for the design.
Also, since it is scaled and detailed, they are free to seek competitive bids or even use it as a do-it-yourselfer plan.
I generally want to add (but don't): I just don't think it would be professional for me to invest so much time, materials, expertise and effort into a plan and then give it away so I can drive down this street next month and see that Ernest Plant-a-lot's company has installed it because he could do it cheaper.

How do the pro's here usually answer this kind of question?
I have also thought of saying "Sure, you get the design deposit back if you install with us!" And then going back to my laptop and revising the price to jack up the estimate just enough so I still make the money on the design after my "discount" But then if I do two aquaintances for different prices (oops) Does anyone keep their estimate prices jacked up enough so they can automatically offer the "design deposit" back upon completion of the installation without having to play with the numbers on every bid?

[Bill Schwab]

My answer is as always...." Sir, if you can afford a house in San Diego with an ocean view , and if you choose to ride around in that german or italian iron that you do, then how can you ask me such a ridiculous question?" After a short response I then say, " If any company you hire does not think enough of its services to negotiate what it is worth before they start, what makes you think they can perform the job you want after you hire them?"

And, we choose, key word here, CHOOSE who we work for, not all are going to fit your companies profile, and the onbes that you know won't fit, and you try to make fit, will bite you every time.

We create a sense of worth for our company and those who can't see it are the true loosers.

We used to take anything that came our way, and, starting out, you pretty much need to do that to put food on the proverbial table ....Then, once we realized what I just wrote has some merit, the sooner we became the one setting the rules of operation, by careful selection, the faster we grew, because the choices of clientele were/are the ones that work with our company structure.

We try to make everyone feel extremely grateful they found us, and we are grateful that the customer chose us at the same time. Once you set up a condition like that screening a client, it becomes easy to accept, or decline to work with anyone.

As far as jacking estimates goes, if your design services are "free" in the clients eyes, they still cost you, and trust me, I'm not paying for that, the client is...... You have no choice but to add them to your operating costs and recover that from your hourly rate.

If you are a design build firm, typically, the blueprints cost money the client pays. So, it's pay me one way or pay me another, we choose to use the ala carte method. It is our first defense against those who don't fit our company profile. If they can't see the value in paying what we charge for a design, guess what?, they are not one of the lucky ones we chose to work for....

An old landscape architect friend of mine once basically told me the very essence of this text and I did not believe him...then 10 years or so later I find myself doing it, and I see how right he was.

I hope this helps

[jwholden]

I charge for designs, and the rate goes up every year as I realize that my supply cannot meet demand. I think of the design fee as part of the screening process. If someone can't part with 2-300 dollars for the design they are probably not going to hire me to do the install and that is ok. The initial consult is free, but I'm trying to keep myself from giving away too much during that part of the meeting.

I credit all design fees back on the final invoice. I am considering switching to crediting half back because as Bill said it takes time, money, and KNOWLEDGE to work up a QUALITY design. I have yet to master the design fee process. I need to find a way to get myself motivated to do the design while getting my clients motivated to hire me to do the design.

In one of Bills earlier posts he said that you have to get a customer to hire you for the job because your services are special and they want YOU / YOUR COMPANY to do the install. The design should only be a confirmation of what is going to happen.

As a side not I started the year with a decent amount of work which I am hoping to finish Mid-Septmeber. I have only done two design so far this year, but have another four that I should be doing. I have no motivation to spend time doing designs because my time is better spent keeping promises I already made. The time spent on the design doesn't justify the return. Time to analyze my processes as well.

[start2finish]

I usually reccomend a local firm that does nothing but design. And mention that if they pay for a design it belongs to them. They can get "Ernest" to plant it or whoever. Does anybody know an architect.(I AM REFERRING TO A PERSON WHO DRAWS PLANS FOR BUILDINGS) I'm sure they get paid for their work, they don't build the house. My reasoning and it sometimes gets explained in the first contact is that let the guys that specialize in design do their thing, it is my weakest point. I have no problem admiting that, but when it comes to following a plan and grading planting as such, well I make a good living off it. We all have our strengths, I try to maximize my return on my efforts.

But as for returning the design fees, I disagree totally with this unless it was purely negotiation and was padded in the first place. It kind of seems to me like asking me to install a sprinkler system and if I get to mow and maintain their property how about refunding the price. Because I would not have any work without the water my sprinkler system put out. I know this analogy is a little(LOL) far fetched but on a small scale it is the same thing.




Also how many of you guys install sprinkler/irrigation systems.
ever seen a competetive bid come in 1/2 your bid and drive by the job to see turf rotors watering across concrete, spraying the beds with turf rotors(full circle). The guy used 40% of the materials and labor you had planned on and if you had bid apples to apples you were actually cheaper. The reason I mentioned this was the first few systems I bid I sumbitted detailed plans with my proposal to help stop this from happening. And I was doing the work for guys that had no clue what they were doing. In my opinion irrigation systems are simple to install once you have your water comsumption figured and coverage laid off. You just lay pipe and wire and tie it all together. But I have never been able to charge for a sprinkler design, people wanted me to mark the head locations with paint and flags for joe lowball to copy and cut my throat. I haven't instaled a system in over a year and don't plan on it unless it is tied to a large landscape install.

[GLAN]

This is a very good thread.....

I design and install......If that is for an existing customer. I know right off I have the job and have never charged for a design. Now if the design process becomes a burden with numerous changes and such.....once it has been decided upon, I politely tell them that I am adding $100, $150 or so to the project for all the extra time incurred for all ther revisions and estimating

I have been fortunate to do work for people outside my customer list where I knew right off we had the job no matter what and did the same thing.

Calls from advertising for design and installation work that are not from our customer list. They are informed from the start that there will be fee for a design and estimate. The minimum being $100 and goes up from there. 100% of that will be included into the job if we are given the work.

I'd have to say that I have had more than enough people tell me they can get a design for free. So be it, go make more calls. Interesting though is there have been several that were well aware of having to pay a design fee and were fine with it. And it just so happens I was the only one they called. But there was one job we did where they did actualy pay another designer for his proposal, but we got the job using my design and swapped out a couple plants for what the designer had......no big deal to me.


Now there is a difference in how I do the designs for my customer list and outsiders.......my customers get kinda a pencil sketch and a basicily typed up proposal. Outsiders get a scaled drawing, nicely detailed and typed proposal in a nice presentation folder.

[agla]

If I don't value my plan enough to charge for it, why would you want it?

But, you have tyo assess your particular situation. Bill summed it up nicely and emphasized the word "choose" . He is in the situation where he can choose who he does not need to work for. But, he did not get there over night. For a lot of you, getting certain jobs are worth the investment of some design time (or subsidizing). And not all design work is worth a lot of money. You have to be honest with yourself if the design is fairly generic and quick and easy to make.

It is a far greater sin to have half of your trucks parked than to invest a couple of hours in a plan if you need the work.

Again, like Bill said, your clientel has a lot to do with it. Who actually is your competition? Do the people that you normally find in the running for jobs you are trying to get, do free or cheap design work?

You have to understand that no matter where you are in the landscape business, your true competition is a reflection of your company. If they design for free, you have to know that you are at the same level that they are whether you want to believe it or not. You can not decide that your design is worth more. The market decides that for you. And if you are in the market that competes with those guys, you have to elevate yourself out of it or compete on their level.

In other words, not everyone can charge a lot for design. But those who can, must.

[r schipul]

Very well said everyone. Belisarius, my answer to a client asking for a free design is much like the question Agla starts his post with. " You get what you pay for". After A blank stare I add something like "if the company offering free designs doesn't value their time or expertise enough to charge for their design, why would you want a plan from that company?"

[Belisarius]

These are all good responses to give: professional, diplomatic and firm. I prefer the up front approach to the sleight of hand with the estimates I was thinking of leaning towards before. By being professional about my fees up front I may lose a few customers to fly-by-night companies but it is preferable to having to play games with pricing.

[LandArts]

We charge for consultation/design work and offer free estimates. If the customer is clearly not DIY we usually don't charge. Any design fees are refunded off the labor if we do the installation.

[bcx400]

All professionals charge for their time. Anyone expecting a free design, or not willing to pay for a design, does not place any value on your time. Anyone who perceives your time as worthless (in my mind) is not a good client.

That being said, I do not charge my existing clients for design work. ALL new clients are charged $75.00 per hour for design work. I rebate the design fee as a 10% discount off all invoiced work (up to a maximum of the total design fee). This way, if I do a $600.00 design, a client needs to spend $6000.00 to get a full rebate.

I have found charging for designs to be a good sales qualifier. When speaking with a potential customer on the telephone, I always let them know that the initial site visit is free, but any design time is billable time. This separates the 'wheat' from the 'chaff'.

[r schipul]

Just curious, why do some of you feel you need to rebate your design time back? I know it's a common practice within the industry. For the first couple of years after college I operated that way as well. I found that creating the estimates, sales meetings initial consultations time consuming enough that when it comes time to create the design, the clock starts.

[GLAN]

Originally posted by r schipul
Just curious, why do some of you feel you need to rebate your design time back? I know it's a common practice within the industry. For the first couple of years after college I operated that way as well. I found that creating the estimates, sales meetings initial consultations time consuming enough that when it comes time to create the design, the clock starts.

For some of us.........making the design fee inclusive if we are given the job pretty much is not dependent on how great we are, or how anal we can be with detail and quality.........but rather. The over whelming amount of competition within a given area.

Yes......there are those that want, expect and demand quality and will pay for it. Just not enough of these kind of people. Far to many that expect and demand quality but feel that they shouldn't have to pay for it.