[stone-guy]

Hey guys,
I'm new to the forum thing, but its just what i've been looking for!! This is my third year in buis. The first year was excellent, (I also worked a four ten hour day regular job) due to cut back i was forced to spend all my time on the buis. last season things got so bad, i had to do bankruptcy. all the suggestion that were given on the forum, I tried, I advertised in the local paper, cost $240 for three months,I got one call made $250 profit so in reality made $10, i tried the fliers in the mailbox, but come to find out that is illegal. word of mouth seems to be the only thing keeping the small jobs coming in, I tried the job sight signs, but most jobs are on single lane side streets.
I'm out of money, out of credit, and out of Ideas.
I've heard if you can sweat it out for the first three to four years the name starts getting recognized. and the calls will start coming in, any suggestion??

[Stonehenge]

Welcome to the site - sorry to hear about the hard times.

There are lots of opportunities to market your business either for free or for very little money.

It's true that mailboxes are a no-no - but hanging materials on doorknobs is not. We get a lot of good work from that.

Put on a seminar for whatever your specialty is, and alert the local media - might get a front page story for nothing (do some reading here and you'll probably find the stories of how I got to be in the paper quite a bit).

Sometimes you have to get creative with your marketing methods, and you just have to grind things out.

Hope you have better success this season!

[Pelican]

Is your truck lettered? I get many calls that start "We saw your truck in the neighborhood". It also lends legitimacy to your business.

The mailbox rule is you can't put anything inside the box, you can hang information on the outside legally.

A lot will have to do with the health of the economy in your area. Is there business available to you or are there already too many landscapers in the area? I've been fortunate in that our area has been booming since I started, but I can understand your frustration.

[HardDaysKnight]

Hello Stone-guy and welcome to GTX. Fight back my friend.
In the early stages it gets dismal at times but you and only
you can reverse the downside of being on your own.
Instead of stuffing mailboxes we knocked on doors and cut
deals. It works, trust me. Make them think you are giving it away
but make some money, give a great deal and get into the
neighborhood. Just like Avon...ring the bell and have some photos
to show. One sure fire way of getting noticed instantly with free
advertisements is to fork over $75-$100 bucks to a local
chamber of commerce or two. Keep at it if you can and I wish
you much success, Johnny.

[stone-guy]

Thanks guys for the suggestion,
It didn't click to use the out side of the box, I did try the card in the door for a while, but didn't really have any success. Yes the truck is letter, bright red lettering, reflective phone#, 4" letters, all set on a black truck very vissual, I went to the real estate companys, builders, and left cards in all the local deli and store, (seems to be the best)

I was starting to question my work, but all my customers call back for more work, I've given the first maint. to perspective clients hoping to get the contract, but most wind up doing there own, to expencive your thinking right, but i seem to be less expencive than the other comp.
I dont think it is customer relations, I spent 12 years as an elevator service mechanic, dealling with both the customer and there tenents, never had a complaint, did recieve a few complimentry letters. Maybe the name? There is a few landscape comp., but there is so much new construction going on there should be plenty for all i would think.
well thank again for the advise, I'll try them and see what happens...Jim

[Bill Schwab]

Ok....Do you have anything that happened to you that was really bad yet? I mean beyond bad? Because from what you are writing, if I read between the lines, it appears that you have one of two things going on....First, volume. Second, I betting you don't have a good handle on what it costs you and or what you need to make a little bank.

The BK, I was about an inch from it, and honestly, in terms of getting back on my feet faster, it would have been the fastest way. If you work your credit options wisely, in 3 years your scores will be inn the high 600's to low 700's. It took me years struggling paying back what I could to get over the hump. I'm still not exactly where I want to be, but, only about a step away from it.

What type of work do you do? Sounds like maintenance, maybe some landscape, maybe both. Flyers work well, so put them on the box rather than in it and if the mailman is any kind of human, they will leave you alone. Or, be a sneek...Go to the box just after the mailman has dropped his load. Place your flyers there because when the homeowner arrives, yor litterature will get taken and the mailman will not have seen it. Second, go to a place in your area where they have those newspaper boxes...You know, the kind where you put in a quarter and the whole thing opens, and you are to be on your honor to take only one paper...Open every paper and place your flyers inside.

Go to a mall. Drop flyers under wiper blades until the security kicks you out.

All grey area tricks that work. If I can be of any help, axe away!

[Stonehenge]

Originally posted by Bill Schwab
Open every paper and place your flyers inside.

That's a hoot! I never would have thought of that!

If I can add to what Bill said, and respond to your last post, if you're losing all bids to DIY'ers, then you may be barking up the wrong trees (i.e. not attracting the types of potential clients you should).

Pay attention to the approximate dollar values of the homes you visit (check the paper if you aren't sure how to spot a $150K, $250K, $500K home, look through the home section and maybe visit a few open houses). You're after the people who are smart, educated and have jobs that pay them well enough that they wouldn't think of attempting this. You need to appeal to them in every contact you make - as James Chadwick put it, you need to become "the man who came to dinner". Dress nicely (simply wearing khakis and an oxford I get told at least a few times every season that I'm the most well-dressed landscaper they've met). You need to speak their language. You need to understand what's important for them and make it important to you, too.

When I started I was attracting the wrong business, too. It seemed to always be the cheapskates. Our first year I landed every bid - 100% close rate. But looking back on it, it was low margin, high PIA factor work. Those same clients from our first year would sometimes call us back in future years, only to find they couldn't afford us anymore. They thought we were too expensive, too...even though we were still less than most of our competition. I was slowly figuring out that they weren't the types of clients that would get the business where it needed to go.

One of the most important traits in a business owner, in my opinion, is resilience. I get knocked down a few times every season - but give me a day and I'll usually be p.o.'d and ready to fight whatever knocked me down the day before. And nothing shows resilience more than Bill Schwab's story, rags to riches to rags to riches - every day he shows you what can be done if you're a tough nut to crack. Quick to learn, quick to try new things, not afraid to take risks or make mistakes, and fast to get up, dust himself off and jump back into the ring - like the landscaper's version of Rocky Balboa.

Keep reading through these pages and implement what you learn here - all the tidbits and secrets to success are scattered throughout the site - you just have to find them and act on them with everything you've got.

Good luck.

[stone-guy]

Bill thanks for the smile, the news paper machine thing, we only see them in the movies lol, I live in this tiny little vacation/resort area, lots of money if you have a vacation home on the lake, poverty if your a local lol,

most of my work is new install, lawns, hard scape, lots of walks and patios, well, mostly rock work, a few water features, sprinkler system here and there, I can't seem to get that maint. umbrella, to keep the cash flow--well flowing, the few contracts (very few) i have, are carried over from new or renavated jobs that i have done.
I really regret the bk thing, my lawer kind of pulled my leg alittle, told me in 4-6 months i would be on my way to re-establishing my credit---yeah right now im told it could be up to 3 years before im any were near it, should have reseached a little. should-a-could-a-would-a!!!

I defenality started re thinking my numbers, I bid every thing that comes my way as if i dont want it, seem to get more jobs that way, go figure?? Thanks for your input---Jim

p.s. wheres the spell check?????

[Stonehenge]

Re: Spell Check - Click on the button - it's below the field to enter text.

[Bill Schwab]

I defenality started re thinking my numbers, I bid every thing that comes my way as if i dont want it, seem to get more jobs that way, go figure?? Thanks for your input---Jim



You learn fast Stone Guy. The less hungry you look, the faster you get hired. You might want to ask Voodoochile about resort towns. He is in one of the wealthiest around. You need to tap that market. So, how can you pound the pavement yo hook up with owners, management companies, and direct owners? Can you run any title searches to see who the go to people are? There is a way to do it through public records because we get bombed with mail every week about a property we have in Port Charolate Fla, people wanting to buy it. Title records will show who owns the resort properties, and those people typically are willing to pay to maintain them. Hitting the tourists is a waste of time. Are there any BNI groups near you? THey will generate tons of referrals for you to gain work.

All you need with the BK issue is a little time. And, that will be all your credit report will show from the filing back. Everything after it will show positive. Get a secured credit card and make sure you pay the balance off every month to statrt, then maybe a car. Unless you have to, don't sell your home, because that too will report in favor for you.

You can do this, all you need is preserverence.

[Stone Art, Inc.]

My partner and I started this biz with two nickels that we rubbed together. The first winter he and I didn't take a draw from November to March! Borrowed money left and right from family members that believed in us to keep the company going and to keep the banks from foreclosing. (Thanks family!) Even now its feast or famine. Paper rich and cash poor. It's the nature of the beast. Get out there and hustle yourself. We've joined several networking groups that my partner attends one or two nights weekly, this generates a lot of leads. Keep doing a good job with your current clients. Referrals are free and your best source of advertising. Give your current customers extra cards to hand out, develop and maintain good working relationships with your vendors, get on their list of referrals. Yard signs, too, are cheap and effective. Consider applying for an S.B.A. loan to build the business with effective marketing strategies and a good business plan. Follow through!

We've yet to build this biz to meet our initial goal, we're like a lumpa coal just starting to shine. The work is hard, the hours are long, but man, its worth it!

[Stonehenge]

Stone Art, tell me about your networking groups - is this like the local chamber and that kind of thing? Or is it less formal? I recall Nebraska talking about feeling like a target walking into those meetings after awhile, everyone wanting their back scratched, but not wanting to return the favor.

[Stone Art, Inc.]

This one in particular that has generated a lot of leads = sales, it's called the Marty Connection. 'Marty' is a cross between a meeting and a party. Its quite informal. They serve food, beer, wine and sodas, and the purpose is for a mix of business owners and salespeople to refer to others within their group. KC has over 10 'groups' none of which have overlapping trades/services. Our group has bankers, real estate agents, insurance agents, attorneys, accountants and contractors offering different services. Since there are no other 'hardscape' contractors we are then able to visit with the other 9 groups. Its very different from the chambers of commerce or rotary clubs, both of which we've tried and really had no success. Add to the fact that the partner and I aren't buttoned up and businesslike 24-7 the informal nature doesn't make it feel like work. We've done driveways, pool decks, patios, and several entryway monuments directly for or with other members of the networking group. Its been well worth the investment of 700 smackers a year. But before we joined I called 4 other members for feedback, their responses were the same "you get out of it what you put into it".

[start2finish]

I started in mowing and after two years I completely removed that part of the business. I gave all my accounts to friends that were in the business. Kindness and generousity are always rewarded even if you don't directly see the results. My reasoning behind leaving mowing is that there are too many guys mowing, fireman that are making extra money not keeping up a household. Also the "landscaping" aspect required a higer investment due to the equipment costs and that weeds out some of the competition but there is still plenty.

As for bidding jobs, do not do the russian roulette approach and stab at these things. You need to figuere your overhead and profit expectations. Know day by day what you need to make to achieve your standard of living and keep in mind downtime due to weather. This may not apply in Florida, but there are times when you cannot make money even if you are booked solid. Keep good insurance!!! Sh*t happens do not let it destroy everything you have worked for. If you employee people a corporation or (S) corp is something you need to look into. This will protect your personal interests.

And another piece of advice customers like to bargain and talk you down. I know you have sold a used car before, do not be afraid to intelligently bargain a little, but do not lose your margin.

DO SELL YOURSELF!!! Close the deal on the first meeting if possible. If you have nothing at all to do, still talk about when you can schedule your work before you leave their property. "When can we schedule this, when is best for you, I may have an opening the first of next week, get a commitment and/or deposit to hold their place." SELL SELL SELL, be careful about high pressure, don't come across desperate but confident in yourself and your work.

[LandArts]

Stone work photographs well and a picture is worth...

You might consider having someone design a full color doorhanger. Don't skimp on the photography or the design. Looks a lot more professional than a flyer and you'd be suprised how many homeowners will stick them in their desk or junk door and call months later. Do a quick Google search and you'll find some really affordable full color printing options. The hungrier you get the more you hang.