[riderjc33]

Just starting out and already have the chance to bid on a Homeowner's Association (Townhouse Complex). The work will include 7-7.5 acres or (318,000 sq. ft.). I will be responsible for mowing, edging, trimming, replacing 7 small trees, and mulching about 185 small trees. Does anyone have a suggestion on how I should go about estimating the bid? Thanks.

[nebbe]

First, get all of the numbers together that pertain the job. Turf area to be mower with a rider, area to be mower with walk behind, are to be mower a push mower. Then determine the amount of trimming and edging to be done. (best in lineal feet) Then estimate how much clean up time there will be involved with each maintenance visit.

Using your production rates you can then determine how long it will take to do each task for each maintenance visit. Take that total number of hours and multiply that by you CAW (crew average wage) add in you labor burden and overtime factor and know you know what you labor costs of production are. You will than need to determine the cost per hour of the equipment that you are using such as: tractors, push mowers, walk behinds, trimmers, back pack blowers, and edgers. Then add this total to you total labor cost for each visit.

Next determine you general conditions, truck and trailer to get to the site, any loading time, drive time(unless you do not pay your employees that time), supervisory time, supervisors truck, disposal fees, etc.

Add the labor costs, equipment cost and the GC cost together and you get the bare cost of the job. Now add you overhead figure whether it be by the production hour, a percentage on labor, a % of labor and equipment, etc with a profit number and that is what you need to get for mowing that property every visit.

I would bid that tree replacements separately unless that want a LS bid. For the trees and the mulching you need to go through the same steps that I outlines above. Figure you labor, materials, equipment and your GC, add you overhead and profit and that is you number.

There are many ways that this job could be bid, hourly, per maintenance visit, yearly, LS, but knowing the costs associated to the job before going to the table is the most important thing in this biz.

I forgot to mention also look at any other things that could be add to the job that the property manager missed. This may give you a competitive edge at the bidding table--may open the contract up to extras....

[Bill Schwab]

An HOA could easily be the most discouraging account you have, and with a new company, I would never recommend doing one for the following reasons:

1) the business of the HOA typically is secondary to the boards personal matters. That means if they don't get around to cutting checks at the monthly meeting, you don't get paid.

2) Inevitably, there will be members on the board or landscape commitee who have in their jobs, been passed over for every promotion they ever felt they were entitled top have. Now that they have been elected to new found power, you and your crew will be subject to several dynamics.

a) You will be subject to verbal abuse.
b) You will be asked to do things that are not listed in your scope of work for board members in such a way that you will be made to feel obligated to do them at no charge.
c) Your company will get blamed for trimming things, such as flowers, that were clearly eaten by rabbits. It will take you time to address these with the homeowners, and or board, and, you will not be compensated for that time.

3) HOA's typically are the cheapest of cheap, the low ball bidder will always win over the others because the vote on financial things is placed on the general floor to vote on. The less is more mentaility of people as a whole will most always prevail. What this means is if you are turning a profit, things are going as well as can be expected in this type of bid, and, fuel increases, so, the next year, you have to increase....There is always someone who, will under bid you and, you will need to fill the void left by the loss in order to grow.

It is much easier to recover from the loss of a house or two which will give you far less greif by doing the work.

The list goes on but these are my top three as to why you stay away from HOA's, particularly with a new company.

We don't do maintenance any longer, but we get solicited for bids all the time to redo entryways and common areas for HOAS. Knowing full well the things that will come out of it, we turn them down as fast as they inquire.

[Lanelle]

And if you need another reason to be distrustful of HOA work, even if you please the board this year and next year, the following year they will elect new people who will feel the need to reinvent the wheel which means getting rid of you regardless of your performance. OK, once in a while there is a small chance that a board doesn't operate this way, but those are the ones not asking for cold bids.