[Pelican]

I have to quote a job that I need a little help with. My client has installed a vinyl fence on top of a mound of dirt next to his pool. To gain the height he wants from the fence, there is an 8 to 12" gap below it to grade. He's asked me to bring in more soil to fill this gap, I figure it to be about 10 yards.

The trouble here is the location is not accessible by truck or machine. All soil will have to be moved by the wheelbarrow load. There's about 400' to move here with a couple slight grades, and the last 15 feet are up a slope that is 3' higher than ground level. The wheel barrows will be loaded through a coal chute on the dump truck.

Can anyone give me an idea of how long this might take to move the material? I've always been able to access job sites with everything I've done.

I'm also open to suggestions on an alternative means to fill this gap. We're planning to plant fountain grass in front of the fence, but the homeowner wants 100% privacy under the fence

[jwholden]

Is this for an existing or new customer?

Could you bring 1 yard of soil to the site and place it where you need it and see how long it takes you, or your foreman, and than adjust the time based on what you think your crew can do (I estimate crew productivity at 75% if what I acheive when I time myself. I tend to rush when on the clock.).

Next option, or possibly better option, is one of those mulch shooting trucks.

[FungusMudGrub]

Off the top of my head I would allot at least an hour of labor per yard. It's a long run for the wheelbarrows, but I assume filling them with the chutes should be fast. (I've never actually used chutes, so you'll know that better than me.)

[Stonehenge]

Wow, more than a football field to push?

Here are some numbers and ideas running through my head:

The fastest marathon runners on the planet run just under 5 minute miles. Each lap there and back for one of your guys is going to be like a sixth of a mile. Pushing stuff. And they probably aren't marathoners. I might plan for 4-5 minutes per wheelbarrow for loading, hauling, dumping and spreading.

6 cuft per w/b gives you about 5 w/b's per yard, or 50 wheelbarrows. But because they're pushing them up and down hills, plan on smaller wheelbarrows. Say 6, which gives you 60 w/b's. 60*5 minutes = 300 minutes, or 5 man-hours. Add in time to bid the thing and windshield time, and maybe you're at 9 man-hours, whatever that comes out to for your labor rate. Plus the soil.

[agla]

How many guys and how many wheelbarrows?

You have about 60 wheelbarrow loads to deal with. Back in the day, I had no skidstear and used to use three wheelbarrows and two guys to move loam from truck to destination. I never found that loam came out of a coal chute very well, so we would start with three wheelbarrows lined up facing in toward the back of the truck. One guy would be up on the truck filling wheelbarrows one at a time. The second guy would take the first wheelbarrow and go as soon as it was filled. Depending on how fast the turnaround time was, the first guy would either jump down when the third wheelbarrow was full (if the other guy was not back with the empty), or wait until he had no empty wheelbarrow to fill and then jump down and take wheelbarrow. When the other guy got there he'd jump up. Pretty soon you have a regular rotation that included little breaks and it is almost fun (unless your guys are not highly motivated). A couple more guys and a couple more wheelbarrows would make for some better breathers after that 800' run.

Shoveling out of the truck is not that bad. You have gravity on your side. When the truck is full, you are more or less knocking it into the wheelbarrows. Then you are pushing it or just lifting the shovel a foot off the floor. Don't dump it and then fill wheelbarrows, whatever you do.

The hardest part will be the three foot berm at the other end.

I'm getting more and more concerned that crews are so used to equipment that they are not all physically and mentally ready to handle this type of basic stuff. I'm a little guy and had no trouble doing it (a towering 5'8 and a half if not 3/4"). But the last few years I was out in the field working with young guys, they did not want to do anything without a machine. They'd be so depressed at the thought that they probably could not take it on.

[Pelican]

This job is for a lawn account that I picked up this season. I'd be more comfortable if I could work up a quote for him rather than do a trial, though i agree that would be somewhat safer.

The truck will be an F-550, I can reach over the tailgate and coax the soil through the chute, still easier than loading the wheelbarrows by hand I think. There will be two of us, myself and a new worker who I've yet to put to work in anything like this.

After what's been mentioned here, I guess I could throw a little material in my truck and time a wheelbarrow load over a similar distance here.

[TrickyDick]

I was going to suggest doing a trial run with an empty wheel barrow. That'd be easy. Then just take a guess how much the weight will slow you down. I would guess that it will slow you down a lot after a while. Your pushing wheelbarrows 5 miles plus shoveling, raking, etc. It will wear you out.

[jshilan]

Why not just do T&M so no one loses. What if it is more than 10 yds, then what? Keep track of your time in case you run into this type of situation again, and post the results so everyone can learn something.

If you want to give them a solid price most companies around here assume 45 minutes per yard of material (topsoil, mulch, etc.) for a typical install, this is obviously much harder

As an inexpensive alternative solution I'd say use some sort of "chicken wire" which will keep the pets in, but most pool codes typically only allow 2-3" of space below the fence.

[AZTLANLC]

Is there a chance to have the soil dumped on the driveway and use a dingo to load the wbs, using that method I can see 6-7 man hours but all by hand I really think 15-16 man hours. an f-550 can't have 10 yds at the time, so if you still load the wbs from it have the guys spread while the truck picks the other load.

[Paul]

I see 16 to 20 man hours, moving 400' each way at 1 mile per hour with 5 cu ft in each load. I hope you counted on compaction or it could be longer. Volume filled along with a compaction factor of 1.35 = 13.5 cu yds. Thats 73 wheelbarrows full, if my math is right thats 11+ miles ( 800 ft per trip x 73 loads / 5280 ft)

[Pelican]

My client called today and canceled this portion of the job, he resolved the privacy issue in a different manner but didn't go into details on the voice mail. My thanks to everyone who offered their input, I'll keep a bookmark to this thread for future reference.

[Terre]

I just love threads like this! I learn just how dumb I am! But with each one, I get a little bit less so, thanks to you guys.