[gardengirl1105]

After reading many of your posts about guaranteeing plants, I have decided to mark up my prices a little more (to cover potential replacement costs) and offer a guarantee to my clients.

Question: I think there should be a different guarantee for residential vs. commercial sites due to the comm.'s being more risky for plant survival due to many things. I'm considering residential guarantee to be 12 mo.s for trees,shrubs,woody plants and 90 days for perennials and grasses. The comm. sites would be 12 months for trees,shrubs and woody plants and 60 days for perennials but ONLY if they have a properly working irrigation system otherwise no guarantee. That's the short version, but you get the idea.

Any thoughts or suggestions??

[TrickyDick]

We've started to require irrigation, temporary or permant, on pretty much all larger jobs. Your idea sounds reasonable but my thought is that you are more likely to be bidding competively on commercial work and the client will likely require the same warranty from all bidders.

[sdinenno]

Around here (Atlanta), it's getting to be almost required to give a one-year warranty on plants. I think this is at least partially due to the influence of Home Depot. They not only have their regular stores with garden centers here but they also have 4 stores in the area devoted solely to landscape supply, and all the plants they sell come with a one-year warranty. There is also another local chain of garden centers that offers the same guarantee.

I think it's a good idea to give a replacement warranty because it gives the client peace of mind and, therefore, helps to close more sales. And even though he's paying for it in the original price, it really builds a good rapport when a customer sees you promptly replace plants according to your guarantee. I actually don't mind returning to replace plants now and then because it gives me the opportunity to see my customer and thereby build a better relationship with him.

But unless your supplier is giving you an unconditional replacement guarantee, then you have to include some qualifiers in your guarantee, so that you don't get burnt if you do a large installation and then there is a drought, a flood, some kind of blight, or the customer completely neglects the landscaping. On the other hand, you don't want to include so many stipulations that it sounds like you're trying to find a way out of living up to the warranty.

[RHayden]

Your residential warranty sounds fine- actually is the same as ours. You may run into some problems if your bidding new commercial as a lot of these will not have irrigation systems spec'd but will still require you to guarantee for usually a year.

We did an Aldi's grocery once that wouldn't let us use THEIR water to upkeep THEIR plants/turf. Go figure.

[Turtle]

Is everybody warranting just the cost of the plant. Labor is stilled billed or are you guaranteeing full labor and plants?

I currently offer a warranty only if they sign up for a years full service Irrigation repairs,fertilization program and maintenance services.

[Dale Wiley]

Originally posted by Turtle


I currently offer a warranty only if they sign up for a years full service Irrigation repairs,fertilization program and maintenance services.

DING...DING...DING...



We have a winner here.....

The warranty you need to give is the one that is fair to your company, not what the market trend is, based upon letting the big boxes set the standard for a contractor to follow ??

How many sales does HD have available to spread that cost of a replacement plant out over ??

If we install something, walk away, do not have maintenance on it... and then they expect us to replace a dead plant ??



If we install the job, and we have a signed, paid up current 12 month maintenance contract, I will replace ANY plant on that job for as LONG as I have the maintenance contract. The plant is replaced at installed value, if the client wants an upgrade, then they are billed for that.

If everything on the site as far as maintenance is under your control, you can warranty those plants.

The minute one factor leaves your control, you lose as far as replacements or warranty's are concerned.

I factor in a 94% survive ability rate on all plant materials. That means I have projected to replace 6% of the plants on any given job. I SELDOM come that close. It is usually under 3%. And since about 70% of the plants usually come from my nursery, it does not hurt much.

[sdinenno]

The warranty you need to give is the one that is fair to your company, not what the market trend is, based upon letting the big boxes set the standard for a contractor to follow ??

I think the warranty we need to give is what the customer expects. It's the consumer who runs the show, we only supply their demands. And if we factor in the cost of replacing dead plants up front, then we are being fair to both ourselves and our customers.

It's not just the big boxes who are offering plant guarantees in our area. We have a local chain of about twenty garden centers which also offers the same warranty as the Home Depot Landscape Supply outlets. And I know of at least one large nursery that is doing the same. They are not going to lose money on the deal, they just figure out the percentages of returns and adjust their prices accordingly. Of course, in the case of landscapers, we have to figure in the cost of labor for the replacement as well as plant material.

[Mau]

We have a local chain of about twenty garden centers which also offers the same warranty as the Home Depot Landscape Supply outlets. And I know of at least one large nursery that is doing the same. They are not going to lose money on the deal, they just figure out the percentages of returns and adjust their prices accordingly. Of course, in the case of landscapers, we have to figure in the cost of labor for the replacement as well as plant material.

I've asked the nursery manager at my local Home Depot how their guarantee works and he said the suppliers take all the risk. The grower/supplier isn't paid until the plants are sold and the grower/supplier is charged with a debit on any returns.

[johnkeegan]

We offer a full one year guarantee that includes plant and labor as well. With plant loss numbers similar to Dale's it's really an annoyance more than anything.
Unfortunately we have one nursery chain that actually offers a "lifetime warranty." Of course, that's only on the plant. I stress to customers that you have to dig it up, drag it back to the nursery and bring back the new one and replant it...And you better have the receipt.
Also, when figuring out the markup to help cover the potential losses, don't just use some random percentage. Be sure to factor in site conditions, size of the plant and it's past history of problems. Some plants are near bullet proof and others not. Planting a 10-12 foot White Pine (they seem prone to 1st year problems) at the top of a steep bank on a manicured lawn better not have the same "guarantee markup" as a 18-24" Blue holly (seem invincible) next to the garage.
Has anyone tried offering the option of two levels of pricing to customers, one with a guarantee and one without? Or an extended warranty for an added price?

[Dale Wiley]

Originally posted by sdinenno
Of course, in the case of landscapers, we have to figure in the cost of labor for the replacement as well as plant material.

Ok... for discussion sake here...

Do you mark all your plant materials up 100% ??

If you have a one year warranty on your plant materials and you want to figure the cost of labor as well...

Tree at cost $ 125.00
Mininmum Labor to Install 3 man hours at $ 36.00 per hour COST = $ 108.00

So we have a cost of $ 233.00 to replace that tree. It is actually more than that, because you have lsot the opportunity to make net profit on that cost, so you should add another 30% to recover the net profit SOMEWHERE...



On my replacements, I have the 6% mortality rate baked in. What I don't do is factor ANY labor for those replacements.

If I did, I would have to figure 6% of the labor for the installation of the plants and add that as a potential labor cost down the road.

I go back and charge the orginal job cost for the labor, which is effectively subtracting the warranty labor and materials from the orginal net profit.

In my market you have to bid sharp, and that extra 6% on the warranty labor may make you non competitive if that happens to be the case.

We have very little retail nursery presence and activity in the greater Portland areas. Big boxes dominate.

I still do not understand how you can guarantee a product that is perishable and subject to an unknown number of variable problems and blindly say you WILL replace it even if the maintenance guy aced it out, if it does not get water for a month ??

What if the landscape does not get water for a month in July and the whole damn thing dies ??

Every frigging plant on the job. Are you going to go back, buy all new plants, and reinstall them, only to go through the same thing again ??

Who could take that kind of a hit ??

A maintenance contract is like an extended warranty....if I control it, I will stand behind it.

[johnkeegan]

I just usually make a point of stopping by without notice to check on watering and remind them (in my stern "dad voice") that if they don't water as per instructions the guarantee is void. And I make a round of calls to recent planting customers if there is a prolonged dry spell. That works with 90% of the negligent ones. But some inevitably slip through the cracks and get free replacements despite their neglect. But to be honest, haven't most of us at one time or other returned something under warranty even though we knew we weren't totally innocent in the product malfunction. That's inevitable with any business that both offers a guarantee AND desires customer loyalty, whether it involves plants, trucks or cellphones (oops...did I say cellphones...).
On the flip side, the fact that every "landscaper" is expected to offer a one-year guarantee scares alot of wannabees out of the market. They either refuse to replace something that did die (new customer for me) or refuse to get involved with anything that grows. This means less competition and my guess is this helps explain why, in my case, there's more profit in planting than hardscaping. But we don't seem to have the influx of low ballers that plagues others. I think the cold weather and long winter weeds them out.

[sdinenno]

In my market you have to bid sharp, and that extra 6% on the warranty labor may make you non competitive if that happens to be the case.

You're not looking at both sides of the issue. I could just as easily say, "In my market you have to back up what you sell and if you don't offer a replacement warranty, that may make you non-competitive." The additional percentage only makes you non-competitive if you are dealing with customers who don't care about a plant warranty. I have found that most of them do care. Usually, I'm asked about it by potential customers if I don't mention it in a quote.

We have very little retail nursery presence and activity in the greater Portland areas. Big boxes dominate.

But you don't have big boxes like Home Depot Landscape Supply which are HD stores devoted exclusively to landscaping. And you don't have a large and successful chain of retail garden stores that also offers a one-year plant warranty. And maybe you don't have landscape architects who routinely include a one-year replacement of all plants in the specs on their plan documents. We have all of these things and we can't just say, "Sorry, but we don't give a plant warranty."

We buy mostly from a nursery that gives us a warranty. Or we buy from the HDLS stores which have a "Pro Desk" where they offer prices to landscaping contractors that are competitive with the best prices from the nurseries (and contractors get the same one-year plant warranty).

I still do not understand how you can guarantee a product that is perishable and subject to an unknown number of variable problems and blindly say you WILL replace it even if the maintenance guy aced it out, if it does not get water for a month ??

What if the landscape does not get water for a month in July and the whole damn thing dies ??.

You just have to play the percentages. You mark up your prices enough to cover a certain amount of expected losses.

And you have to have stipulations in the warranty to guard against natural calamaties (such as drought) and buyer's negligence. You can't make it unconditional unless you mark up each job by a fairly large percentage.

[gardengirl1105]

Thanks for everyone's input so far. I'm trying to put together a guarantee that will make my clients happy yet cover my behind of course.

We have all of the "box" stores here as well as smaller hardware stores and they all offer the typical 1 year guarantee on practically everything. In addition our local (yet larger) nurseries also offer 1 year usually on trees and shrubs and 3 months or so on perennials/grasses.

My idea so far is to offer 1 year on trees/shrubs/hardy woody plants, 90 days on perennials/grasses for residential sites only.

The commercial sites would get 1 year on trees/shrubs/hardy woody plants and 60 days on perennials/grasses but only IF they have a properly working automatic irrigation system. If no irrigation, then no guarantee on any of the plants.

FYI, I do mostly residential sites however a comm. site gets worked in there now and then. Next spring/summer I have a comm. bid out for a grocery store/shopping center that includes 4-5 smaller beds with shrubs, roses, and grasses. They have absolutely no irrigation and don't plan to put any in. The plants will all be surrounded by asphalt and crazy people driving their cars and shopping carts. Not to mention that when it snows, the beds will probably be piled with 10ft. of parking lot snow. I've discussed these "problems" with the person I'm dealing with and have told her things would not carry any guarantee.

So far in my 10+ years in business, I've had very little plant material die on me but I do feel the "hesitation" when my clients ask about a guartantee and I tell them no. I try to explain that my wholesalers do not pass on any guarantee to me and therefore I do not offer one, but try to keep my plant pricing lower than the other real nurseries around town to stay competitive. So far it's been ok, but I think it's time for a change mainly to give my clients that peace of mind. I also tell them that if they would like to go to one of the nurseries and pick out and pay for the plants they want (so they get the guarantee) then we would be happy to pick them up at the nursery and install them. Most of my clients haven't bothered to do this as it's more of a hassle for them. Our local nurseries won't pass on any guarantee to any local landscaper buying plants...only their own retail customers.

Oh, I don't add in my labor costs to the plant cost as one unit (if my retail price to my clients for a tree is $250 and it takes us 2 hours to pick it up and plant it, then I bill for exactly how much time it took plus the cost of the tree). Should I add a flat rate in to my plant pricing in the future to cover my "potential" replanting cost???

[Turtle]

We buy mostly from a nursery that gives us a warranty. Or we buy from the HDLS stores which have a "Pro Desk" where they offer prices to landscaping contractors that are competitive with the best prices from the nurseries (and contractors get the same one-year plant warranty).

Well that helps

We dont have any nurseries that offer a warranty Other than that they are free of insects and healthy at time of delivery.

Most of our nurseries will actually charge restocking fees for returned plant goods or do not return plant material at all.

[johnkeegan]

On an estimate I prefer to show all specific items as materials (plants, mulch etc.) with labor included. I used to show the materials separate from the labor involved with planting/spreading it. The cost of labor was lumped into one number with all other planting/mulching etc.
I changed my ways however for two reasons. First, it was just easier when paring down an estimate to meet a customers budget. They could see exactly how much those 10-12' pines cost and whether they could afford 30 perennials or 15, without bugging me to refigure the labor each time.
Secondly, I no longer had to argue with a customer who said," Well I see your boxwood cost $50 but I can get them at Home Depot for $35. What if I have you pick them up there and it will save me....And about the cost of your perennials... and I can have the mulch delivered and dumped on the drive..."
Yes I could explain that I offered the guarantee (inc. labor) and that I would have to charge extra labor for the aggravation and that it takes MUCH less time AND backstrain to work mulch/soil/stone off the back of a truck than off the ground...blah,blah. But I don't want the aggravation of either discussing my pricing or having a crew stand around in a big box or nursery or having a employee develop back strain because they want us to use "their" materials.
The way I price now, they just see a material/labor included price for each item. Now that boxwood is listed as $70 labor & materials instead of $50 for the plant and the $20 buried in the overall labor cost. It seems overly simple. But no one bugs me about price matching materials anymore and I have control over the quality of the plants in my design.
On a side note. I do find it odd that it's common practice to put a one year guarantee on trees and shrubs but not on perennials and grasses. We place the same guarantee on those, however, because they are suppose to be "hardy," so why the difference? If you plant the right perennial or grass in the right location it's certainly as durable as most shrubs and trees. It's a perennial not an annual.