[smittybros]

has anyone had any experience using a tree spade on a bobcat, 2 plant trees, i have a lot 2 plant in a new subdivision. aprox 150 trees,some homes a built with sod already installed trees go in the parkways i thought the spade would do less damage 2 the sod. i also have a tight deadline, village is threating fines 4 the builder, if the trees are not planted within 7 days,
(is the spade my best option)???
LOVE 2 SEE YOUR OPINIONS

[Paul]

Dan, we ran into some problems with using a tree spade planting parkway trees. Gas lines where the biggest problems followed by getting the tree to fit the hole, then there the time wasted hand digging holes because the spade hit a rock and you can't it get in.

If you don't have a problem with utilities in the parkway I would #1 use a mini excavator 7000lb class(you can park a truck next to it so you can load spoils) #2 use a auger with new teeth to dig holes. I know in your area you have problem with rocks but a 36" auger would get you into production faster than a tree spade. Things that I have found in getting trees in fast are, trucking hire someone to truck for you Even with todays fuel prices keeping you drivers on site adds extra man hours to the job.

With a JULIE locate, 5 men, one mini excavator, one bobcat a truck for spoils and semis bringing you trees, you could average close to 100 trees a day. Cutting it down to 3 men and you should still hit 50 trees a day.

[smittybros]

THANKS PHIL
i was pondering the auger idea but wouldn't the hole need to be partially hand dug ? when a spade could pull the hole plug clean? trucks are no problem, i also own a garden center,and I'm a bulk material supplier,I've got a fleet of trucks at my disposal.i haven't thought much about the excavator. would that dig nice enough hole?
thanks for your help

[GLAN]

As Paul describes is how an outfit does all the town plantings that I see going on all year round. Auger is what they been using lately....nice thing I see regarding the auger is that the soil is distributed all around the hole........super easy back filling and setting the tree. To tell you the truth.....they don't take away all that much soil.

Our utility company uses mini excavators. Awesome machine, that would work very nicely as well.

[Dale Wiley]

As usual, Pauls numbers are accurate and profitable.

We can do 30 a day with 2 men on site and one driving trees from the nursery, which is very close by. If I put 3 men on the site, they could hit 50 plus a day easy.

We use a 36 inch auger on our Vermeer S600 to punch a run of holes, switch to forks to spot and drop trees, backfill by hand, and remove spoils at end of the day by bucket and dump trailer.

We have our own truck for the trees, and we make money on transportation as well. In fact, transportation is going to be a new seperate profit center for us this next year.

One of our bark suppliers delivery trucks broke down and they hired us to make their deliveries for 2 days. $ 80 per hour for our dump trailer and tow vehicle.

[start2finish]

I wouldn't remove any soil, we use the excess to build drip rings around the trees. With an auger the drip rings are very easy. Also one reccomendation is to serrate the side of your holes if you use an auger, if the soil is clay-like or hard the auger tends to "make a hard crystal-like coating on the hole" it makes it difficult for the new plant's roots to grow through. Just take a shovel and scratch the sides with the edge 5-10 places vertically , diagonally, horizontally, any way to loosen the sides and rock on man. Best of luck. I used a three man crew and planted 50 8 foot leyland cypress a while back including staking the trees in about 10 hours. This included pick-up and transportation of machinery and trees.

[HardDaysKnight]

You should really take the advice of the posts above.
It's the way to go. Good luck!

[Bill Schwab]

By using a Hawk tree bucket on the nose of a 545D, assuming no lines are underground, you can run similar production rates to the mini X route, and in some cases, even faster because with one plop and drop move, a wiggle if the bucket controls, and you have a 4' wide by 3' deep home pulled from the ground on plug form. then you follow with a 6 wheeler of planters mix and a skid steer, along with a staking crew.

I don't know anyone who even sells Hawk buckets anymore, I have a dear friend in Oswego whose grandfather patented them in the 40's. Unfortunately, they will not work in this concrete and rock we call soil, but in the Illernoyzz clays and black dirt, they rocked!

[Paul]

Spade nosed Bucket. Bill, A number of companies are now making them for skid steers. We used them on "clean jobs" much faster than a auger in rocky soils but you can't run them (at least with a skid steer) on sod. The down side is back filling, you really don't get any good material and dumping spoils into the truck can be a bit slow. I always liked the Mini Ex, with a 24" bucket it was three scoops, first to remove the good soil and set it aside for back fill the next two went into the truck then on to the next hole, total time is less than 3 minutes. Plant one side of the street then work back the other side.

[Gardenhaus]

Lots of things to consider here besides speed or at least in conjunction with speed.

We have found the 30" auger in our soil in NE Pa works great for many reasons. Previous posts have mentioned the nice clean holes with the fill neatly placed around the hole...something a bucket can't do and depending on your soil, you then have to break up the soil dug by the bucket.

We set the trees with a sling and the dingo, place treesaver in the backfill and backfill the tree while tamping the soil in at three different levels to remove air pockets and then we also don't need to stake the trees. Both Penn State and Rutgers have stated that staking is not necessary and in fact not staking promotes root growth due to the fact that that minimal movement promotes root growth....no I don't know how they measured that. We have never staked trees and we showed the Army Corp of Engineers last year on a project where they asked us to plant 34 3-4" dia. maples on a windy open site and we insisted they be without staking . We made believers out of them......a year later and not one tree varied from straight.

You can also point out to clients the huge liability of having staked trees especially in a neighborhood........tripping, choking and vandalism........know a good lawyer?

We vary rarely have any spoils to take away and if we do have rocks....the dingo with the bucket goes around and picks up the rocks and set them up on the UD truck.

I haven't had much time to look at the site lately, my son was in a motorcycle accident the end of July and I have had other things to take care of. The good news is he will be fine....at the end of September or mid October. In our family at times like this as dark as the time may be, we always ask what is great about this or what could be great about this .........And due to this challenge we have continued to evaluate our construction business and continue to refocus our business on servicing only truly highend, high profit clients and our bottom line continues to climb while doing tremendously less work with much more free time. We won't talk to anyone (go to their house for an evaluation) without a $120 site visit fee......if we do the work, they get it credited against the project.

I believe Bill said it best.........where do people get off thinking we can give free estimates? Start charging for each new client and you will 1) get rid of tire kickers and 2) focus on those who are willing to pay for your professionalism.........if they won't spend $120 ( or what your market and reputation will bear) they won't spend $10,000 or $3,000........of course it helps if your reputation is for outstanding service, quality and client access to you at almost any time.....

[Pelican]

I have a related question. I'm bidding a job that will have some fairly large trees that will require a machine to set. I see a sling has been mentioned and I've seen pictures of them in use in magazines, but haven't seen them in person. The ones I've seen wrap around the root ball so it can be lowered in the hole. My question is how do you remove the sling once the tree is in the hole?

Also, would a sling that lifts by the trunk damage the tree?

[VoodooChile]

Gardenhaus,
This week we staked (3) 16' Cockspur Hawthornes that another company had planted and had tipped hard. They were tree form and had 24" rootballs, way undersized. I can't imagine how such material could be planted without staking...

When we do the planting we: 1) aim to install properly sized rootballs, 2) chock the balls with rocks at the base of the ball and hole, and 3) foot-tamp and flood with water to settle the soil. Still, some tipping occurs.

What method are you using to compact the soil around the ball? Isn't there a trade-off between overcompacting the soil, reducing rooting, and staking, avoiding the need to compact the soil so much and permitting rooting to occur?

Pelican,
I think lifting any plant by its top without supporting the weight of its root system is damaging. Essentially, gravity is pulling and tearing away at the roots.

I'd like a tutorial on using a sling too!

[Stonehenge]

Voodoo - the Gardenhaus post is from quite a few months ago - not sure he's been back in awhile...

We haven't used slings yet for our larger trees - but we have used straps fed through the wire baskets. But most often we just use forks, lean the tree away from the skidsteer as we place the rootball at the far side of the hole, then tilt the forks down as we pull out. When we do it right, the tree is cradled into place and needs very little adjustment.

Planting some big Hawthornes...I still vividly remember being short-staffed at the first nursery job I had the day a semi came in with about 100 smaller Hawthornes - I had to unload them all. By the end it looked like I had been in a fight with 37 cats.

[Pelican]

Jeff, that's the method I've used to this point with the same success, but this job does not allow direct access with the forks. I'll be able to reach with the backhoe boom which led me to believe the sling would be a good choice. I'd like to know how they work before diving in to purchase.

[Nathaniel Carr]

Pelican,
I have two tree slings from A.M. Leonard, they are expensive for nylon straps but Holy Smoke are they a lot better than wrestling trees into position. We just planted a hedge of cedars using it and we were able to lift the balls over a row of daylilies and set them into a trench. The daylilies would have been destroyed if we didn't have the sling. It basically made heros out of us in the home owner's mind.

They way it works is so simple I wish I would have thought of it; The thing is basically a "cradle" (it might be hard to describe). There is a fat strap that wraps around the bottom of the root ball, sewn to the strap are smaller straps with loops that attach to your forks, three of the looped straps are fixed, the last strap is extra long and it also attaches to the forks, but first it is passed through a little loop on the end of the fat strap, so when you lift your forks the long strap cinches down on the cradle strap, and holds the ball secure. WHen the tree is placed the long strap is threaded off the fork, through the cradle loop and then is is totally disconnected and you are ready to grab the next tree.

I bought the medium one last year and this year I got the big one for the 3" caliper and over trees. We are going to put it to the test next week planting 5- 20ft birches on a 3 to 1 slope.

Having reread your post I would like to add:
I don't know if they would work with a boom, you want the forks to go to either side of the trunk.