[Stonehenge]

We were notified by a client that the grading we did for a new lawn last fall was out of compliance. I'm hoping someone can give me some direction as to how to approach the situation with the municipality and the engineering firm.

The gist of it comes down to this:

According to the terms of the drainage plan, deviance of .1' is acceptable (that's 1.2").

Of the 4-5 measurements where we are deemed 'out of compiance', we deviated from the drainage plan by about 1.3-1.4 inches.

In one instance we deviated by 6". However, this lot was the last one graded in the neighborhood, and the adjoining lots only allowed 6" of change in elevation from one end to the other, when we were supposed to have 12". So basically, the non-compliance was due to non-compliant grading on the adjoining lots.

I'm not keen on excavating more soil out of this client's yard to be in compliance, because it would result in my client having a small pond in their yard, because the adjoining lots are too high.

I've never run across this, so I'm wondering how, for those that have run across this, how you would diplomatically handle it with the city and engineering company that created the plan.

[Bill Schwab]

Jeff:

This is knit pickage in it's hieght, and I got toasted for that one once in Geneva, Il. Basically, the developer is responsible for distributing soil to 1/10 (within 2") of final engineered spec. Supposedly, the devloper is supposed to shoot the grade and get a sign off before they turn it over to the homeowner. Then the fun begins... At this point, if you have a city who knitpicks, they will hold you the finish grader responsible for any of the excavators goofs. So, to cover your but, you need to shoot the grade prior to getting started and address issues directly to the homeowner so they can get the excavator back out to make it right. Otherwise you get to hold the liability, or enter into the proverbial pissing match of you did it, he did it....

Here is how I would approach this situation. First, who was responsible to make final grade, not finish grade? Who is the developer? What requirements are written by the city and or developer as they relate to each trades responsibility?

First try intelligently talking the thing through and seeing if someone is not willing to step up to the plate... Does the developer have finalk elevations before your equipment got on site? If not, he should be partially responsible.
After all parties reject any responsibility, it is going to be far easier and cheaper for you to fix it willingly, than get taken to court, which inevitably can and will happen. My bone headed client did so and in hind sight, I just should have fixed it and moved on. How many man hours do you have in the repair? Maybe 8? 10? Figure $300.00 an hour for a lawyer to represent you on a very uphill battle. Courts strongly favor hoemowners.

If you decide to make the changes, make sure this client knows full well the distance your company went for them when you could damn well could have told him too bad. Next time, make sure your client shows you the liability sign offs from the HOA and or developer. And if there is a final grading requirement i.e. were they required to shoot the grades, get the numbers with the benchmark they shot from, either that or ad the cost of shooting the grade right into your bid.

That's about all you can do unless someone else has a better idea!

[Stonehenge]

I forgot that added kicker - the developer went belly up a few years ago.

I don't mind fixing what needs fixing - I can simply step on the soil in a couple affected areas to drop it the fraction of an inch needed for compliance, and feather a couple shovels of soil for a couple other areas. The part where we're 6" off, my concern is how to address this in such a way that either:

1) We're seen as the good guys for making 6" of drop over 100' lot work, and leave us alone, or

2) We excavate another 6", but not until the other neighbor gets their grade right first. I don't want to create a pond for my people, with water being dammed up at the lot line, waiting for the real offenders to fix what they goofed on.

As a side note, our contract stipulates that the rough grade has to be within 2" of final, anything different than that gets an extra charge. Now I don't want to be the bad guy and hit them with this, but the provision is there should I need it.

[Bill Schwab]

Did you document that the final grade was within that 2" before starting your work? That is where it might bite you.

Lemme ask you.....Does the homeowner have documentation from the civil engineer on the elevations and are they mapped out? And here could be a win win for all....Anyway you can get the grading on the adjoining lot and recover or at least split the loss of the one you did from that work? You have a valid point if that lot was graded too high and that messed yours up, the sensible thing to do would be to have that one put into compliance first, then do yours....Can you get the county inspector out there and respectfully pick his brain as to what he would do to correct the situation, as in will they give you a variance?

[Stonehenge]

Originally posted by Bill Schwab
....Can you get the county inspector out there and respectfully pick his brain as to what he would do to correct the situation, as in will they give you a variance?

That might be the thing that works. The homeowner did provide a drainage plan, and we matched it as closely as we could, but also reported to the client at that time that the grade in back was difficult because of the adjoining lots grade.

We did not verify grade as being within 2" in advance, either by way of laser or photos. My eyeball told me we were close. Guess I can't trust that left eyeball anymore.

The homeowner also gave me written docs from the engineer explaining exactly where we were out of compliance, so fixing it ought to be easy. Do you know they also digned us for the soil level at the house? Fortunately, that's another one where walking on the soil will bring us into compliance. lol.

[Bill Schwab]

Soil level at the house is a huge one out here. Since we have slabs and no basements, there is a stucco vent attached to the slab sides. The dirt must be no less than 4" below that vent, and if you have hardscape, it must be no less than 2". Nonetheless, I see illegal contractors who don't know any better installing patios right at the level of that vent....

If worse comes to worse, grab your plate and vibrate it down....

[nebbe]

Jeff, we had similiar situations in a nieghboring town. What I have done to protect ourselves from having this situation is I request a drainage plan from the city w/ 2 bench marks (usually 2 fire hydrants). We set the grades to that hieght and we do not deviate from them for any reason unless it is in writing from the city engineer. We will grade the yard to the set grade even though we have neighbors coming out looking discussed at us because there is 8" of grade change between the property that we did and their yard. All the city engineers say is that the property that we did is that the grades are done to those set forth on that of the grading sheet.

The problem is that every body and their brother knows how to put in a lawn. Suprise Suprise there is more than leveling out the dirt and throwing down seed.

Last year when setting the grades on a property we discovered that the engineers had designed a hole in the yard but fail to design in a catch basin. We hade to sit around for 3 hours waiting for the engineers to re-design the grades and fax a copy over to the office with their signature on it.

[Stonehenge]

That house wasn't on Christopher street in Town of Harrison, was it? If so, I feel for you, because the client also seemed to be on the difficult side.

Hopefully you were paid for your sitting time.

For the parts where we were just outside their acceptable deviance, laser box or otherwise it's pretty hard to get soil to cooperate perfectly to achieve your elevation expectations. One footfall at this time of year can drop the soil level beneath your foot 1/2". And in open areas where we aren't meeting other lawns, we're usually pretty tight with specs. I think the problem is wanting to keep all parties happy, even those who aren't paying me. Guess I'll have to cut that out.

[nebbe]

No it was over on the southside of Kaukauna. We have had problems in Mau Vill if you know what I am taking about and in Fieldcrest new section. I do not know of the one on Christopher but we re-did some lawns on orchard something at the end of Christopher I think. Those we were contracted to just reseed them, but looked at them last week and water was standing in spots just like I told them. Why believe me I don't know what I am taking about.