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Old 07-06-2004, 01:48 PM
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Trouble with a White Ash

Last year we planted a 5-6" Autumn Purple White Ash, and a few days ago the client told us the tree had dropped all of it's leaves.

I went out there today and took a few pics, and am hoping someone can help be diagnose the problem.

The cambium (sp?) in all the branches is still green, and it appears the tree had fully leafed out in spring. All the petioles are also intact, still on the tree. It almost looks like someone came by and just stripped the leaflets from the tree.

Also, this must have happened pretty recently, as it looks like all of the leaflets are strewn around the ground, and have not yet been mulched by a lawnmower.

Here's a shot of the tree:
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Old 07-06-2004, 01:49 PM
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The next shot is of a few leaflets I picked up from the ground - they all look a little pale. This is how most of the leaves looked around the ground. There were some that were curled and brown, but a vast majority looked like this pic:
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Old 07-06-2004, 01:49 PM
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This is the underside of the leaves:
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Old 07-06-2004, 01:53 PM
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I looked the tree over and didn't find any evidence of Emerald Ash Borer.

Also, there are many other Ash trees in the sub that don't appear to have been affected like this. However, they are all established trees. I did notice similar traits in more recently planted trees in the neighborhood, but non of them were defoliated like this.

Lastly, we have had a ton of rain in the last two months. Lots and lots. The soil felt moist, but it was raining today, too, so I don't know if that was any indicator.

The tree looks a little crooked compared to when we planted it, and the stakes were all pretty loose.

The tree has no mulch ring around it, but upon inspecting it for line trimmer damage, there was none.

Anyone have any ideas for me as to how to go about saving this tree, if it is in fact saveable?
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Old 07-07-2004, 01:08 AM
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Stone, I checked in Dirr and the list of pests and diseases that afflict White ash is impressive, but none really match what you describe. Dirr says that White ash is prone to stress, and that accounts for the laundry list of problems.

As for this not-expert, it's sounds like root rot to me, something an established tree would be much better able to resist. No matter what, I'm guessing the tree in question is toast.

Mid-season defoliation on a newly planted tree is a death-sentence. Established trees, like Crabs, can withstand losing their foliage mid-season, and still have enough energy in their roots to break bud the following Spring, but not something that isn't root established.

Rip it out and look at the roots; that's where your answer lies.

Last edited by VoodooChile : 07-07-2004 at 01:10 AM.
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Old 07-07-2004, 07:31 AM
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Wet feet. I had a green ash do the exact same thing a few years back. It turned out that the ground was saturated just a little below the surface from a cracked irrigation main. I think the "puddle in the background might support this thought.

I had the irrigation line repaired. The tree leafed out later in the season with no problem other than that the buds popped up in odd places because the normal ones had already done their thing.
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Old 07-07-2004, 09:51 AM
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Ok, thanks for the replies. Now I have to decide if this is something I'll cover under warranty. Client was a pain in the neck, and we have a 'natural disasters' clause in our plant guarantee. Ordinarily we would just replace it and be done with it, but this client gives me pause to not be so generous.
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Old 07-07-2004, 06:28 PM
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I agree with agla that it is wet feet. Almost every time I have seen a tree defoliate green leaves like this it has involved to much water.
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Old 07-07-2004, 08:09 PM
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For Stone's sake I'll hope agla and dan are right and I'm wrong!

I am wondering when (and if) this tree will leaf out again, this summer or next spring, and how far back will this early defoliation set it? Your opinions, guys?
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Old 07-07-2004, 10:32 PM
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I'd guess wet feet too. I'd replace it and find a spot in your own yard to stick it. It might come back. I have always believed it isn't a gonner until the dead leaves stay on the tree.

Good client or bad, remember, the client isn't the only one who knows who stuck that 'dead' tree there. A quick replacement will almost certainly lead to a great referal or ??? You may never know what leaving a bad taste in the mouth will bring.
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Old 07-07-2004, 10:48 PM
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A lot of times I have found trees like this are a goner and sometimes not. Usually dropping green leaves is a sign of an enviromental condition that happens rather suddenly like flooding, extreme heat or cold or a toxic gas or a low dose of herbicide (fumes, not mist). If the roots havn't rotted and it was a short term wet condition their is a good chance of survival and you should see leaves sprouting withing a couple of weeks if the conditions causing the problem have been dealt with.
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Old 07-07-2004, 10:49 PM
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Jeff, I would have someone stop by and open a planting ring around the tree. For that size tree it would be 8' -10' diameter. I would have them cultivate out side the root ball 6"-10" deep. This should allow the surrounding soil to dry out and allow some air to the root system.

Yes trees have been known to come back from this but what really worries me would be the weakened state it would go into winter. Following your low snow fall and no snow cover your tree would be subject to an even harder freeze conditions. If it does come back I would mulch it later in the year, wider than the 8' to 10' tree ring. This should help protect the tree along with a pre winter watering in late November/ early December.
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Old 07-08-2004, 12:12 AM
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Was the tree that crooked when planted????

The bend too me could be a sign of a few other problems.....

1. High winds...........could the tree be in one of those 'micro wind tunnel' areas that I've seen on properties, which could lead to that lean and to stress.

2. Initial growth (probably not a concern)...............tree may have been grown on a hill at the nursery (the reason for the angled growth) and now that it is being forced to grow on level ground, it is struggling to adapt..

3. A personal experience........when a tree is crooked like that, you have a desire to straighten it out. Because of the sharp bend, you are unable to straighten it out by setting the root ball on a slight angle because one side of it ends up sticking way out of the ground..........so, to straighten it, you tend to push a 'little' bit on it or force it into position by using tree stakes.

When certain employees or people (not myself or any of my employees of course!) start pushing on a crooked tree, they sometime push a 'little' bit too hard and a distinct snapping sound is heard......the sound of the roots being ripped apart inside the root ball.

Of course, all my employees would notify me if they did something like this, as I'm sure yours would............................................. ..........................................

Last edited by PSUscaper : 07-08-2004 at 12:17 AM.
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Old 07-08-2004, 12:30 AM
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Also,

my nifty scouting for disease book mentions Anthracnose as a possible cause..........and notes moist and cool weather as a time for spread.

Also mentions light brown to tan blotches on the leaves, and pre-mature dropping.

maybe, maybe not...
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Old 07-08-2004, 08:08 PM
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I was looking through my Ortho Problem Solver and saw the same thing Penn. The pic seemed to show a different look to the leaves than what I saw, and most of the leaves that dropped were still totally green, though pale, so I'm thinking it's the wet.

And call me greedy or insensitive, but I met the client halfway on the tree issue. We'll do some rototilling to try to aerate the soil, on us, but if it doesn't work and the tree dies, we'll pay for the tree, they'll pay for our labor. Our contract protects us from any liability for a case like this, but I'm trying to be a little bit nice (which seems to be in short supply for me lately ).
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