[Mac]

The last two people I talked to both seemed to think I am not required to pay overtime to my laborers. So, I looked up the laws just now and the possible way I could get by with out paying OT is by calling my company an agriculture business, thus excluding me from paying OT once beyond 40/week.

Think Im being cheap and cutting the line close? Has anyone ever tried this with any success? I also saw paying piecework frees you from paying OT - any Compass co's ever realize this? This may be the solution.

[AZTLANLC]

Finding employees in our field is hard to begin with this would make it even harder for me.
I'd rather focus on finding ways how to make more money for me and employees.

[VoodooChile]

Are you producing a crop for sale? That would be one definition of an agricultural business.

[Stonehenge]

There's a local business by us that somehow gets themselves qualified as an ag biz. And apparently there are other perks - such as, you can't take a farmer's equipment away from him. No matter what. This construction company got classified as ag, and when they didn't make payments on the long term rental (or maybe it was a loan on an owned piece of eqpt, I don't recall), it was repo'd, then after a couple quick phonecalls the construction co waltzed back to the dealer and took back the equipment.

To the point at hand - I wouldn't want to be you on the first pay period that your people work 60 hours and don't get any OT. Maybe the economy is bad enough there that a non-OT job is better than no job, but know that as soon as other work is available, they'll be gone.

I wouldn't risk it. But that's me.

[Cochran]

My understanding of 'agricultural business' is to be defined agricultural you must produce a crop for sale or trade--in our part of business, that would be growing plants for the trade. If you're a grower, you can be classified ag.

If you are only a landscaper/hardscaper/lawn maintenance/etc. you aren't classified ag and must pay overtime. Overtime costs more, but in the long run employees will be more appreciative and you will have more self-satisfaction in knowing you're doing the right thing and not having to worry about the loopholes that got you classified ag and keeping everything straight.

[dan deutekom]

Don't get me started I feel that one of the main drawbacks to getting skilled reliable labour in this industry is exactly this thinking. Landscapers in Ontario mostly get away without paying overtime by using antiquated laws that follow "agriculture", "horticulture" or farming. With most planting being not bare rooted, there is no reason to have things done "today". Most of our "landscaping" is really the same as most construction trades. We lay lockstone, build decks, excavate etc. We really don't plant that much. You add this to being a seasonal business and it is no wonder it is hard to get reliable labour.

Then you look at Landscape Ontario promoting the banking of hours ( http://www.horttrades.com/attach/200...s_brochure.pdf ) so that your employees don't get paid overtime during the long weeks but get paid a regular wage all year long. The problem with this is that most small landscape companies can't meet a payroll during a long winter and the employee ends up with a yearly salary that would be about $7000.00 less than if they take all of their pay when it is earned and collect employment insurance when laid off in the winter.

We have to wake up. We are competing with construction industries for our labour. Stop trying to find ways to cheap out on your most important resource. You mostly get what you pay for.

[Mac]

I can tell this is a pretty one sided debate; Im actually on the same side as you all. In the last pay period of March, I gladly paid OT. Again, for the coming period in April, Im also dishing out a ton of OT. Doing so isnt really my concern, mainly just seeing how you all feel. Thanks for sharing so candidly!

[douga]

The law is actually quite clear, agriculture is production only. If you have an employee that works all week in the nursery field, you wouldn't have to pay overtime, bit if he so much as loads a mower for a landscape project, he has lost the ag exemtion for the entire week.