[johnkeegan]

My decision making process is usually totalitarian and then mellows into egalitarian by the time I face the masses.

...that's a great line.

If the job is an hour away it would make sense to work a 10 hour day because the employees are still only doing the hard manual work for 8 hours max.

[GLAN]

Our standard here is 10 hour days........across the board for all industries


Yes.......I would have a mutiny if I were to deduct for drive time.

But.........I don't go an hour or more away. I have only 1 day in the maintenance route that it's about 30 minutes getting there...20 or so getting back

[dan deutekom]

I think a lot depends on the situation. If the employee is reporting to your home base every day then I think you better pay drive time because they are in your truck, and you are controling their time (and let's face it they will be loading tools, fuel and supplies before they leave the yard). If they are reporting directly to the job site then you can start paying when they get there.

Another option that I have seen used for companies that have a lot of windshield time getting back and forth to a job is to only pay minimum wage to the employees during travel time and pay their full wage when on site.

[Nathaniel Carr]

You know reducing the pay rate for window time seems like a good option. I wouldn't count that as inherently unfair. Minimum wage probable won't work for my scenario, but paying at regular time might be the ticket. Or a long commute, windshield time gets paid as overtime.
I really gotta just have the guys otj for 8. And bid the travel. The policy will be 8 hrs on the job, if we drive it is overtime, unless we agree to 4/10's then it is still 8 otj, and no ot but long weekends.

Nobody actually has their guys 10 on the job do they?

[kinnanscaping]

Some of you guys keep arguing that 8 or 10 hours are never actually worked given x,y,z. I sure wouldn't want to work for you nickel-and-dimeing s.o.b.s. As the boss, I don't take a lot of breaks, and I eat lunch on the go. I guarantee, though, that I never work "8 hours on the job." That's a ridiculous standard, and one that will be a sure-fire way to have the WORST help you can find. If you want slave labor, get out of the U.S.A. There should certainly be a line between break and work, but even by 1:00 in the middle of July, dudes just don't move as fast.

[Ston Wurks]

I find it hard to believe that anyone would think it is okay to have an employee come to work, then sit in your truck for an hour drive-and feel it is okay to not pay the man for his time, sitting in you truck, going to your jobsite.

Those hours are on company time, the guy shows up, he's now at work. If you don't know how to bid that, than it's time to re-learn how to bid. Would you drive to some place for an hour and not compensate yourself?

Just my little rant for the day on respecting employees.

[Nathaniel Carr]

Kinnanscaping-Wait a minute...I am trying to improve by business's efficiency, I have identified what I think is a weak point in my system and I am trying to fix it. I thought I would open a discussion on this. I need a little help figuring this out. I don't appreciate being called a cheap sob because I am looking for ways to keep my business competitive.

Ston Wurks-the original post was about the advantage of changing the work week to improve efficiency. My intention was never to to figure out the best way take advantage of my employees.

I am just trying to confront the realities guys, ugly as they may be.

[GLAN]

Maybe in some places of this country it's fantasy land

Where I am.......there is no fantasy land..........Just cold hard reality.


10 hour days unheard of?.........maybe to you and the issolated world you live in.

10 hour days are very normal and very real.........We leave the yard 7:30am.....return 5:00pm or shortly after........My men are paid for a full 10 hour day.........no deduction for lunch......paid straight through.

Next I am going to read that it's unheard of to deduct the time for lunch..........Corporate America has utilized the 35 hour work week long before I have been born.

And it's been stated in plain english in this thread that the reality of an hours drive time relates to an 8 hour working day...........Do the math...........That is a 10 hour day

[johnkeegan]

If you hope to find any employees that view "landscaping" as a serious career, you'll have to treat them (and their time) with respect. I'll agree that most new employees are not worthy of much respect because they lack work ethic and professionalism. In that case, fire them and move on. BUT, the unique ones that are commendable should be shown appreciation. Don't lump them in with the slackers.
...and not paying for lunch time is standard for 99% of the jobs out there. However, trying to not pay (or underpay) for "unproductive time," such as drive time is not the norm. Should we also begin excluding other unproductive time such as bathroom breaks...stopping to chat for 2 minutes with a fellow employee about personal problems... if all work stops while you talk to a customer...waiting on a delivery that grinds the job to a halt....a 15 minute torrential rain delay...etc.
If you want to keep key people, you'll need to figure in these intangibles (or in the case of drive time-tangibles) into your estimates. Or else, imagine how much your estimate will be off when, on Monday, you lose your best worker(s) to someone who doesn't try to use these time card "gotchas."

[agla]

I know that a lot of work is billed by contract rather than hourly. But, when you are charging hourly, I don't think any of you are cutting out billing for drive time or your employees morning and afternoon breaks. I think it is a good rule of thumb to pay your employees for time that you would charge your customer if you were billing hourly (whether or not you are billing hourly).