[sandim]

Ok, past 2 years we put ads in the paper for experienced or willing to train right person. I'm all about giving someone a chance at a new career and when everyone wants experience, how does a newbie get it? I also find sometimes it's easier to train...than to re-train.
So far we've had about the world's worst employees. Maybe we're just picking the wrong ones?
We're considering this year hiring experienced only. How does anyone else feel about this?
It's just time for one decent employee. I'd be happy with just one!
Sandi

[TrickyDick]

It depends on the kind of work you do. If you need somoeone to start running a zero turn or doing masonry work right away then you need someone experienced but for most of what landscapers do I will take someone smart and hard working every time whether they're experienced or not.

[Matt Kulp]

Originally Posted by sandim

Ok, past 2 years we put ads in the paper for experienced or willing to train right person. I'm all about giving someone a chance at a new career and when everyone wants experience, how does a newbie get it? I also find sometimes it's easier to train...than to re-train.
So far we've had about the world's worst employees. Maybe we're just picking the wrong ones?
We're considering this year hiring experienced only. How does anyone else feel about this?
It's just time for one decent employee. I'd be happy with just one!
Sandi

"paper", what do you expect? You can state experienced all you want, but your opinion of what defines experienced and what a job candidate defines it as are probably going to display two different things. I have, and still do place advertisements in the newspaper, but I don't expect much more then labor type of positions to be filled from those ads. It is tough, but if you want experienced staff, you are going to have to hunt them down yourself. I don't have the magic answer in finding key personnel, but I will tell you that the guys I have in key roles were not from the newspaper. Most of our key guys came from referrals, networking, and them hunting us down.

I would put the word out to your suppliers, trade schools, and local colleges and see what you can drum up. One of our biggest sources was our employees. We started giving out referral bonuses to any HIRED employee referred by our guys.

You also mentioned that you have had a run of "bad" employees. In this bus., you are always going to have this. The key is to learn from our hiring mistakes and watch for the red flags when you go to interview the next candidate.

One of my business mentor's always tells me to fire fast and hire slow! Take your time in hiring the right guy, but if you make a mistake, cut the line fast or he will drag everyone around him down!

[agla]

The people who can accept and deal with the help that they get are the most successful. Unfortunately, not very many people have the personality and persona to be able to do that.

Hiring is a two way street. You want what is good for you and the employee wants whatis good for them. Money is part of it, but let's face it, the rate of pay for landscapers is pretty close from one company to the next. Choosing who to work for, and make no mistake - that is what they are doing, has a lot of other variables besides the pay. If you have something else that would make for a good place to work, you have to get that message out there.

[sandim]

Interesting points of view. We did put the word out to our one good employee, but unfortunately he's a college kid. I will definitely put the word out to our vendors. I really like the idea of a bonus to someone who recommends someone we hire.
I'd like to think (as would anyone) that we're a good company to work for. If someone needs time off, there's never an issue, we just ask that they give us a heads up if they can. We're out there sweatin' with them, definitely doing our share. We thank them at the end of the day. The only thing we haven't done thus far is offer benefits. We're hoping taking the business to that level will generate some decent help.
We're looking into insurance.
Someone had also suggested bonuses, but to be careful in how it's structured, any ideas in this?
Also, for those of you who don't plow in the winter, what do you do...just lay off employees?
Any suggestions are appreciated. Not only do we want good employees, but just as importantly we really want to be good employers. We've both been in crummy jobs where we're unappreciated and I want to be sure we're a good company to work for.

[Matt Kulp]

Sandim,

I can tell by your post that you really are looking to create a good place to work. It is very important that before you start to grow your company to create a company culture that you would want to work in. Benefits are necessary, but a good culture will go much further. When we hire a new team member they are always encouraged to talk to our other employees before they make any decision. I want guys that want to work here long term, not work for us just for the pay and benefits. You still have to pay well and offer perks, but that will not keep people long term.

Bonuses are a great tool, but before you start offering them, make sure you have a documented system in place. Also, make sure the bonuses are obtainable for the people. Incentives are great when used properly, but they also can cause more harm then good if not followed through with.

I don't know your location, but you may want to check with some other local business owners about where to look for help. It is always good to know other people in your same situation on a local level.

[sandim]

Creating the right atmosphere is DEFINITELY key for us. Happy employees will do a better job and (not to get too philisophical) maybe we can contribute to their life. Most of my friends biggest complaint in corporate America is not pay or benefits but a lack of recognition.
I feel that a person spends most of their awake time at work so they might as well like their job. We want our employees to like their job.

We have a friend that manages a local garden center, and they hire primarily mexicans. He said to be very careful of that as they are (and I use his phrase) "pimped out". In other words, at least around here in CT, they have a manager type person who controls pay, benefits, etc. He said to steer away from that just yet.

Guess we'll put the APB out to our friends, our vendors and put an ad in the paper and cross our fingers. Our college kid is amazingly responsible and mature. I almost wish he'd change his mind and go for landscaping instead of criminal justice. Don't think he has much work experience outside retail but maybe we can talk to him and get his feedback on good and bad.

While we're on this employee subject, what does anyone pay an entry-level employee?

Sandi

[Matt Kulp]

Entry level will get $10-$12 per hour depending on his/her attitude and our gut.

[sandim]

Ok, so I wasn't that far off. We start at $10 and go up from there depending on attitude and work quality. maybe we just haven't found the right person yet.
Thanks for everyone's input, I appreciate this very very much.

[johnkeegan]

If I had to choose between an applicant with a great attitude but little direct experience or one with alot of experience and a lot of bad attitude, I'd pick the former. Many of the "experienced" applicants come with bad habits that are very hard to break.

[jwholden]

I recently read somewhere that experience can be looked at as such...

Does a candidate have five years of experience or one year or experience repeated five times.

That puts it in perspective. Experience comes in handy for finding someone who knows what they are in for regarding to working conditions. It means nothing in regards to how things are expected to be done at your company. You cannot expect anyone, no matter how good they are, to know everything the first day.

[agla]

I've worked for a number of landscape companies of varying size and have been around many others. The guys who have more than 5 or 6 workers seemed to have accepted that they were only going to get really good help by luck. They concentrated on managing what they got and accepting what they got rather than chasing the holy grail.

The one thing that I think is the hardest thing for people in our industry to grasp is that size does not depend on quality, horticultural knowledge, a crack designer, or a lot of other things. It is ability to manage help that will overcome all other short comings and all the skills in all the other aspects of ownership will not overcome a lack of abiity to manage help.

My opinion is that you are either a leader type or you are not and that it is very doubtful that you can become one if you did not start out as one.

Something to think about, although I have known some landscapers for ten or twenty years who still don't understand that and are in denial of that.

[jwholden]

Agla touched on natural born leader types and I wish to add something to that topic.

Natural born leaders are extroverts. They talk then think and don't get caught up in details like we introverts. Extroverts thrive on change and love competition.

If your company name is based on quality or accuracy you are an introvert. If you spend countless hours trying to hone that excel spreadsheet to get your estimate just right you are most likely an introvert. If you have put posts on the site about how the details are the most important thing about design work you are an introvert.

We need both types of people in this world. If the extroverts ruled we would have many less engineers, doctors, accountants, etc. Oh, and the president of the United States is an introvert...who does not do well in spontaneous public speaking ... unike his extroverted predecessor. If the world was ruled by introverts there would never be change, the status quo would be the rule.

You can take courses on how to be a better manager. I'm not saying it will make you a natural born leader. It can help you to realize your strengths and shortcomings if you are either an introvert or extrovert. Perhaps you are an extrovert who is quick to fly off the handle when an employee makes a mistake. Perhaps you are an introvert who relies on the employee manual rather than sitting down and talking with an employee.

I felt a need to share my research for the past few years on managing people. I hope it helps some.

[Matt Kulp]

Good post JW

[johnkeegan]

In a small company with 1-5 employees (probably 95% of the landscaping businesses) does it really matter if the owner is an extrovert or an introvert or even a "natural born leader?"
Many people I meet who would probably be considered introverts are actually very good at one-on-one relationships or in smaller groups. Perhaps because they listen more. These skills would be important in a small, intimate work environment. Thus making them a good "leader" in that scenario.
Wereas, others I would consider extroverts, are very comfortable on the big stage but appear uncomfortable in more intimate settings. That might make them a great politician or CEO of General Electric but not necessarily a good leader in a small business situation.