[peteg]

II have not been deducting 30 min for lunch for my six guys. Now I need to keep closer tabs on the working hours and lunch time hours. We have been using daily time sheets that they fill out but are looking at other options. Anybody ever used pocketclock for tracking? Do you take out for lunch? As I grow each year I know I will need something better then letting the employees write out there time. www.jobclock.com

[Matt Kulp]

I have not used the pocket clock, but we do take out 1/2 hour for lunch for anyone working over 8 hours. We take the time out whether they mark it on there time sheet or not. As far as monitoring there lunch time, I would assume you have foreman for your crews that in my opinion should be making sure everyone is following company policy.

It also does not hurt to swing by the job site and spy every once in a while!

[BigD]

I have always had this question, so this seems like a good time to ask. In the landscaping industry when the crew drives a company truck to the site, how can the company not pay for the lunch period? In an essence, the crew is stuck on the job site without there own vehicle, so in my mind it should be paid. I fully understand the management side of no work being done and never argued it, but it seems as though lunch should be paid. I am not trying to start a heated discussion, just curious. Thanks.

[Matt Kulp]

BigD,

I see your point, but the fact that they do not have there own vehicle makes no difference in my opinion. Reason being, it is the law that you give your workers a break if working longer then 8 hrs. Second, the employees are not producing during there lunch break and therefore why should we or the customer be paying for there lunch. If you think about it, by paying them for the lunch break, you are basically buying them lunch everyday. I care for my employees, but at the end of the day it is a business and I do not feel it is a wise business decision. Look at it like this, I don't know where you are located, but if you have 6 employees that work 5 days a week and 10 months out of the year would have 200 days of production per employee. If you pay them 1/2 hr per day that would be 100 hrs per year per employee that you are paying for non production. Take that number and multiply it by 6 guys and obviously you get 600 hrs.

Now, I don't know about you, but I have enough inefficiencies to pay for throughout the year to not add another $1200-$2000 per employee. You take that with all the other unseen employee breaks throughout the year and you are bleeding money.

The fact is that the employee should be informed of the mandatory unpaid lunches before you hire them. If they choose to work for you, then that is there decision. I go as far as telling my guys they have to pack lunch or buy it before they get to work. There is no leaving the job site for lunch and/or snacks.

JMO

[mrusk]

I do not pay my guys for lunch. I did when i had 1 guy, but i quickly changed that.

I did however recently buy a punch clock and mounted it in the trailer. My guys all car pool to the job site in the one guys car. We are on sites for months on end so this works fine. I still however pay all the guys for 1 hour drive time each way.

So basically when they get to the job they punch in and then when they go home they bunch in. Then i add 2 hours to each day for drive time.

[peteg]

employees: 6 ==paid lunch cost Weekly: 225.00
Average hourly wage:15.00 Monthly: 900.00
Minutes lost per day: 30 Yearly: 10.800

I have paid lunch a long time but look at these numbers.

[Matt Kulp]

Originally posted by peteg
employees: 6 ==paid lunch cost Weekly: 225.00
Average hourly wage:15.00 Monthly: 900.00
Minutes lost per day: 30 Yearly: 10.800

I have paid lunch a long time but look at these numbers.

So.... Do you feel this is a needed expense for your company? If you keep adding employees, that will be a serious hit to your net!

[LandArts]

We recently put a GPS tracker in our crew's truck. It tracks start/stop times, average speeds, shows truck location on a map and and plots the day's route. Well worth $20 a month (the box was $500). We print out a record at the end of the week and there's our "timecard".

[peteg]

The gps sounds good. I’m going to look into it. I don’t have health insurance for my people and feel paying for their lunch time is a benefit. But this amount of money can be used to do a lot of things.

[Stonehenge]

BigD, I think I understand where you're coming from - every moment that you aren't free to do as you please is a moment you think you should be compensated for. Does that sound like I'm getting it?

I think Matt Kulp nailed the business owner's perspective - we're not generating revenue for the time you're not working, so it would hit the bottom line (or I'd have to change my pricing structure) if lunches were paid for.

I've worked for two other landscaping companies; one of them paid us for our lunch breaks and one didn't. And truthfully, after the first few days when I thought it was pretty cool that lunches were paid, the novelty wore off and I didn't appreciate it anymore than if I wasn't getting paid for lunch. That likely influenced my approach.

And while this isn't exactly analogous, I once worked for a company in a related field where some hourly employees had to travel to other markets and spend a week or more there working. They were paid for their work time, and their lodging and per diem stuff was paid for, but they were not paid for their travel time (airplane), and they were not paid for every single minute they spent in this other market (time that they were not free to roam their old stomping grounds, visit friends back home, etc).

[johnkeegan]

Actually that 1/2 hour you pay for lunch should probably be calculated at an overtime rate. For instance, if you work 8-4:30, 5 days a week and pay for lunch that would be by law 40 hours at straight time and 2.5 hours at the overtime rate (x 1.5). Wereas, the "normal" way to pay would just be for just 40 hours straight time.
I also didn't see where the wage-related costs of SS/Medicare, unemployement, worker's comp and liability (generally based on wages paid) insurance was included. Usually totals 20-25% on top of wages.
All together that would bring the "free lunch" closer to $1,600 per month.

[Inspired]

I believe I'm required to allow one 15min break every four hours and a 30min break every eight. Some guys take the full 30 minutes some guys don't. One crew just works straight through because they want to get off sooner. I'm required to allow the break time, but they aren't required to take it. At first it bothered me but, they like it better so no problem I guess. I still deduct the time from their cards and they know it. I have to deduct it so I'm protected legally and related company paperwork states the break times clearly. They probably fudge a little somewhere, I don't obsess about it. They are an efficient and productive crew.

As far as travel time, we don't do any maintenance work so we pretty much work at one job all day. Paying a crew of guys to sit in traffic just seems wrong to me, especially in the morning and evening rush hours. I do pay the foreman to drive the truck and make sure he is prepared for the days work (tools, materials, etc.). Some guys like a FREE ride to and from the job. Some guys drive them selves. Thats fine with me. I do pay them if they need to load materials on the way. Thats different.

Hope that helps,
Bill

[johnkeegan]

Inspired...so do they show up to the shop and then get their "free ride" to the job site? Or do they drive directly to the job site? If they go to the shop first and drive themselves be sure your insurance covers their driving their own vehicles. You may think they don't deserve to get paid for that time but if they get into an accident they may be considered to be an employee. Check with your insurance agent. If they drive directly from home to the site, probably different....You may also want to check with your state labor dept. on whether they are on the clock if they meet you at the shop and then follow you to the site. That could save you big time if an employee gets wind of it and demands back pay for all.

... and I'm not sure on your state but in NY the 15 minute break per 4 hours rule only relates to the manufacturing industry not the "trades." I know because I printed out the law for an ex-factory worker who insisted he had a right to that 15 minute break. I stress to the crews to take breaks, especially on hot days, if needed ,but they're not "entitled" by law to them.

[Inspired]

Funny, my attitude really came out in my last post. The first two years I was in business this was like an on going negotiation. A new guy would come onboard and the negotiation would begin again. After awhile it all settled down. Most of the guys ride in the truck to the job. Once a week or so they get paid for it because they need to stop and load up something.

You're right though, I probably should revisit the local laws here. I just joined the Landscape Contractors Association here so I can share info with other local landscapers and learn from some of the other members.

[zullo-design]

we allow a 1/2 hour for lunch, most of the time the guys are on the job but sometimes they will be on the way from one job to another durring lunch time. I can understand the driver not eating but it drives me nuts when the rest of the guys have been paid to sit in the truck for a 1/2 hour and now want to get out of the truck and take lunch.