[Mac]

7 weeks ago I hired a new employee. He is formally trained as a landscape designer, however I am using him as a landscape maintenance laborer. When he began, he had absolutely no experience or clue what to do... now he has somewhat of an idea but he is terribly slow production wise and is slow to pick up new skills. How long would you continue to keep him on board knowing he is causing missed time budgets and lowering the quality of work? Im ready to let him go today but I have not gotten any other points of view. Thanks.

[trees]

I always ask myself these questions before letting an employee go...

1. What's the potential of this person, in other words, what do I see in him and his future?

2. How hard is he trying?

3. Have I done everything I can to make him a success? If not, how much work am I willing to put in to his development? (this second question is largely dependant on the answers to the other two)

Answer those questions and it should let you know whether or not to let him go. I've known enough "trained" people to know that doesn't mean much, and have found a few gems without as much as a single second of training.

I always try to understand that I play a big part in any new hire's success and try not to hold them accountable for my personal failings. That said... I expect a lot from them and don't hesitate to pull the plug if they're not keeping their part of the bargain.

All that said -- seven weeks seems quite a long time to me...

[Mark Oomkes]

When you can do the work faster or in the same amount of time withhout him\her??

I'd say if you haven't seen much improvement in that amount of time, it's time for him to go. Don't beat yourself up too much about whether or not the amount of training provided is enough to create a good employee, unless you gave him a mower and trimmer and a list and said have at it. Employees have to put something into it on their own, it doesn't all come from training or lack thereof.

Jesse's made some excellent points.

Personally, I've had people terminated within 2 weeks (when I wasn't responsible for hiring\firing) because they were driving me insane because how slow they are and some longer than that. It depended on the season a little as well. The 2 week guy was the middle of the summer, so it wasn't too bad; the other was about 7-8 weeks but that was in the spring. He was steady, never sped up or slowed down. The one thing about both of these guys was I could get the work done faster by myself than I could with them 'helping' me.

[Stonehenge]

Something else to consider - if this person was trained/educated as a landscape designer, pushing a mower probably feels like a demotion.

Way back when I was a crew laborer, it felt like I was being punished if I had to go from building/planting stuff to walking behind a mower. Our install crews always got the majority of the owners attention and accolades - the maintenance crew just got harrassed if they weren't mowing fast enough. This guy may feel the same way. If there is no chance he'll ever work in a design capacity for you, this might just be a bad fit for you and him - tell him that and give him the freedom to find something he's going to be excited about doing.

[Mac]

Originally posted by Stonehenge
Something else to consider - if this person was trained/educated as a landscape designer, pushing a mower probably feels like a demotion.

Now Jeff, would a guy as nice as myself make him push the mower... Thats what the hydro pumps are for... lol.
Seriously, I have thought about that point too. However, he has said that he doesnt mind doing this type of labor at all. In all honesty though, I dont ever see him using his design tallents here. I have no desire to get into design/build at all... the closest he will get is leading my TLC crew as soon as I generate enough volume to break that out on its own apart from the general maintenance crew.

Mark, he is definately saving me time. However, where im coming from is this: working solo I can average about 115% of my target hourly rate but with him there are days when we are at 75% of my target rate and then there are days when we get closer to 95%... but never 100% (at budget). This is the largest part of what bothers me. if I can not make my time/hourly rate budgets, then I am simply loosing money. I am not in this business to make losses... I want to make profit.

Jesse, I think the reason I have kept him around so long is because I do see alot of potential in him and he is also trying very hard. I really do think he has dificulty learning or processing at times. Another thing i strugle with is showing him things that he needs to adress and do better at. In the first few weeks, when I noticed him faltering at something, i would let him continue until the end of the property and talk about it with him on the way to the next property. However, recently, I have been stoping him on the property and litterally showing him what he is doing wrong and how to correct it.... In a very frustrated manner.

To simplify his learning, I have given him general rules of thumb for certain properties concerning levels of service... and he always finds the exception to the rules in amazingly short periods of time... For instance, in the summer he was spending too much time blowing clippings on the lawn so i told him generally not to blow a partiular portion of one property. Well, recently we have had steady rain and the growth is rediculous. As a result, the portion of the property I told him to ignor needed extra attention. I asked him about it and he reminded me of what I told him and continued by saying im hard to read sometimes.

Sometimes I wonder if it is a deficiency in me. Im used to adapting to the conditions of a property and doing what it takes to leave it manicured.... is that something that can be taugh or does it just take time and is gained through experience?

Thanks for any words of wisdom.

[jwholden]

Is the problem with this fellah that he is being too detailed with what he does and when you give him a rule he sticks to it like glue?

[jon korevec]

It is really hard for an employee to get in the owners head........Do you guys go over the plan of attack as you approach the job. Maybe this guy feels like he can do no right!
Last year I let a crew member go based on performance..........I still feel it was somehow my management skills that were the problem!!! (actually I'm sure of it)
Jon

[Dale Wiley]

Mark, he is definately saving me time. However, where im coming from is this: working solo I can average about 115% of my target hourly rate but with him there are days when we are at 75% of my target rate and then there are days when we get closer to 95%... but never 100% (at budget). This is the largest part of what bothers me. if I can not make my time/hourly rate budgets, then I am simply loosing money. I am not in this business to make losses... I want to make profit.

Mac:

Your expectations that him or your crew will meet YOUR SOLO target rate are not based in reality. There is a huge difference in the production mind set of an owner operator, and the actual production rate of a paid crew.

To take your business to the next level, you have to base your CREW'S production rate, on a rate that is less than YOUR own personal rate. I can see a crew working at about 85% of what you or I could work at.

Knowing those rates, and how much support time to allocate to support activities related to those accounts will allow you to develop a realistic production rate based upon CREW production instead of YOUR production rate.

This is a real and necessary step to being able to billing more hours and increasing your gross incomes and net profit's. Duplicating your own personal efforts over several employee's is what it is about. You just cannot expect paid employee's to have the same level of personal motivation an owner operator does. And moving beyond the owner operator stage is important to growing your business and to preserving your personal and financial health.

Now there are ways to provide a crew with production incentives based upon increased production rates, that result in increase billings per hour, and increased profits, but you have to structure a complete production system and human resources process around it.

[Mac]

Originally posted by jwholden
Is the problem with this fellah that he is being too detailed with what he does and when you give him a rule he sticks to it like glue?

That pretty much sums it up. I figured the rule of thumb would aid him but apparently it is a hang up.

Jon, The reason I have not let him go yet is because I believe that it is more than partially my issues im frustrated with. I have to admit, this whole employer deal is largely foreign to me.

Dale, I knew initially that he would NEVER get to my production rates, but I still strugle to believe he will work at 60ish% of me (where he currently is). I would be tickled pink if he could get to 85% consistantly. BTW, i sent you a PM. Thank you all.

[jwholden]

Mac,

You are working with an ananytical or accomodating personality type. If he is analytical he is more task oriented than people oriented.

When you see him in the morning does he make small talk about how the weekend was or just go right to what do you want me to do today? No small talk - Analytical. Small talk - Accomdator. To confirm I am headed in the right direction is he less assertive, doesn't like bossing people around, and introverted.

An analytical personality will never produce the same volume of work as an authoritative personality type. The QUALITY work will NEVER be an issue. If you provide what he needs he will be loyal to you and your company. Treating him right means not rushing him to complete tasks, not asking him to multitask, and giving him DETAILED directions on how to complete the job. You will do better if you give him a time frame to complete tasks in and work with him to show what steps can be left out to increase productivity. His goal is to create a perfect end result.

You are going to have to hand hold him to get him to understand his job. Break all jobs down step by step and if multiple steps are too much for him give him a step and have him come to you when he completes each for the next step. Tell him GREAT JOB and make one correction at a time and only if it is truly neccesary. You will build his self esteem if you say great job more often than you make corrections.

There is a thread in the Gold Oak Section about personality types. Where authoritatives (which would describe many business owners) thrive in completing tasks efficiently WITHOUT WORRYING ABOUT THE DETAILS the analyticals and accomodators thrive on completing a task perfectly. Hence, lower output and NO CONCERNS OVER QUALITY.

[Mac]

JW,

I read through your post and thought to myself: wow, he just described him to a T.

From what you say, Im sure he is an Analytical individual. Yes, he is VERY introverted and doesnt like bossing anyone around. It is very apparent he wants a perfect end result.

You say if i give him what he needs, he will be loyal. His loyalty is something I want very badly. What sort of things could he need that will significantly increase his loyalty? Thank you so much.

I appreciate the pointers you have provided; I will work those into the my communications with him immediately. From what you say and what I have seen, I truely believe he wants to please me and the client.

[jwholden]

Mac,

What I mean by loyalty is that he won't seek employment somewhere else and he will listen to you and do what you ask. I want to be clear that you can get him more productive, but you will never get the level of prodoctivity you would see from one of your outspoken (but sloppy) employees.

Analyticals thrive on systems and hate change. Give him a system to work with. Break down each task you have into a set of steps, this is great practice if you are trying to write an employee manual.

For example, if you were teaching lawn mowing.

Step 1, mow the lawn with the big mower. Take the big mower around the perimeter of the lawn once and make sure the chute does not throw the grass into the beds. Mow the grass in a different direction every week; up, down, right angle, left angle, you can leave it up to him which direction. Your stripes should be straight but the don't have to be PERFECT. We strive for EXCELLENCE, not PERFECTION. Say it with a smile and never refer to perfection as being a bad thing, it just takes longer than your clients are willing to pay for. A curve of 1-2' in 60 feet is acceptable, no one is going to notice that.

If you finish cutting the lawn and look back and see A LOT OF clippings on the lawn from 40' away you are going to have to double cut or blow the clippings. This is the test I want you to follow, stop, look at the lawn 40' away and see if the clippings are so dense that they will leave a brown patch on the lawn (set a standard here that you can repeat, you are going to need to, but with patience and a smile on your face).

When you finish mowing the lawn come to me and I will show you how I want you to weedwack.

When he finishes with the mower walk around the lawn he mowed and specifically why he dida great job. I see you cut in a different direction as we discussed, great decision not to double cut because the amount of clippings were not that great. The things you notice about his work are what he will repeat, whether you notice the good or bad (SO NOTICE THE GOOD AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE).

Go over the weedwacking step with the same level of detail, and then the backpack blower.

DO NOT DO THIS IN FRONT OF OTHER EMPLOYEES. TRAIN HIM ONE ON ONE SEPERATE FROM THEM SO HE CAN FOCUS ON ONE THING AND NOT THE COMMENTS OF THE OTHERS.

Gotta go. Appointment in 10 minutes.

[GLAN]

Now this is GREAT reading.

[TrickyDick]

Was that appointment a therapy session JW? Moonlighting outside the Green Industry?

[Mac]

JW, thanks a bundle for all the advice and time you put into your responses. Im really looking forward to working with my new hire, hopefully in a new light.