[familyguy]

I am just curious to know what folks would do in this situation.

You get a call from an occasional client. Needs a medium sized Mugo pine removed. A hand tool/chainsaw job.

I estimated $78.00 for the labor and debris disposal= ($38 for supervisor, $30 for helper, $10 for truck and minor debris), figuring 1/2 an hour to an hour of time. The mugo takes literally 5 minutes to remove, the woman comes out and pays the bill instantly, grateful we responded to her call so quickly and did such a nice job.

What do you do? I'm just curious. I just chalked it up to the fact that some jobs go better than others but it did bother me that I was so steep for such a little thing like that. (We do follow the minimum 1 hour charge rule but this seems like a little outside of that)

I am just curious, not looking for advice. Just curious.

[Pelican]

You gave her a price she was happy with, did the job as you agreed to and apparently exceeded her expectations. You should not worry any further about it.

How many times does a job go the opposite way?

[Lanelle]

Remember that there are some hidden time/cost elements to even a simple job. You or someone on your payroll spent the time to take the phone call, schedule the job, do a bit of paperwork, enter the transaction/payment into the accounting ledger and enter the check into the bank deposit ticket. So charging $78.00 is justified. Another way to look at it is that your supervisor and laborer with a truck would have made that money for that time slot somewhere else.
I see this as more of an accounting issue than a moral issue. Being sympathetic to your customers is wonderful but feeling guilty because you are covering your costs, overhead and profit isn't so wonderful.

[Paul]

Unless this was during a normal service stop, I would think it was too cheap. Ok you have just a 1/2 hour in it for two men, but what about the travel time to and from the job, prep for the job, set up for the next job.

[VoodooChile]

You are entitled to a profit as a business owner. What ethical dilemma could there be in covering your costs and making one?

[familyguy]

The job was right down the road and planned for the end of the day purposely so there was no next job to schedule.

As I was saying I was just curious to know what folks would do.

I am not in the habit of feeling guilty but it just seemed a little over the top. Literally 5 minutes. I thought there would be grubbing roots for at least 15 minutes but it popped right out. That's all.

My foreman got to head home a little early and that worked for his birthday plans. Everyone was happy. I just wondered if any one else might have a similar feeling in the same situation.

As far as being too cheap? Now I am curious to know what you would charge for a max 1 hour job Paul.

[agla]

Two years ago, when I moved into my house, the gas hot water heater needed to have it's pilot lit (no American Airlines jokes). Well, I tried several times, but only let the gas on for short times as I had the match there. It would not light. Finally, I called the gas maintenance company that the previous owner used. The guy came, let the gas run for quite a bit longer as he tried to light it, and lit it. It was a three minute visit at a $98 minimum charge. It got done and I did not look back.

[Dale Wiley]

Unless this was during a normal service stop, I would think it was too cheap.

Agree.

We have a mininmum charge for any service. Years ago, I would have done close to the same thing.

Later on I would have charged 2 man hours, plus 12% for support time, plus 20% for small job, plus disposal.

Now, anything we do is a minimum of a 4 hour charge. Next step up is an 8 hour charge.

[Fine Edge]

Don't worry about it. That was a fair price. Just feel good that it didn't take an hour with 2 guys to dig it out, dirt got left all over the driveway, customer complained & you had to go BACK out there to clean up a little mess and satisfy the customer!

[start2finish]

Our industry needs to be compared with the other service industries. There are too many people that not figuring overhead and growth, do not charge what they need. Our customers do not appreciate our services as much the other service industries.

family guy i am not trying to offend or insult in any way.

This is a mentality carried by too many of our collegues/competitors. Just as was mentioned, $98.00 to light a pilot light.

[familyguy]

Here is the thing, I wasn't suggesting I would be giving money back or be endlessly plauged with guilt. I felt a little sleazy (probly cuz she is an elderly woman), and the check was cashed and that was that. I got to wondering how other folks felt about that, and... I remembered I have a forum to find out. I wanted to be sure I posted this as a curiosity because I WAS NOT LOOKING FOR ADVICE. Just looking to know what other folks felt about it.

SO... now we have an even better topic.

What are the minimum charges folks use. I never thought to add a percentage for a small job. That makes tons of sense though. What differentiates a small to medium job for you Dale? What do other people do for that sort of thing.

I'm not offended by anyones comment, don't take offense to my REMINDING you all that I was not looking for advice! I am just curious to know what goes through peoples heads.

(I have a degree in psychology. I always wonder about the way people react/behave in situations)

[Dale Wiley]

What differentiates a small to medium job for you Dale?

Small job maintenance related runs from a one hour charge whilel we are there for maintenance up to one day 3 man crew
(24 hours) at $ 45 per hour for $ 1,080.

up to 3 day job with a 2.5 man crew ( 60 hours) at $ 42 per hour $ 2,520. My net profit needs are met at $ 41.00 per hour.

Anything above those hours stays at $ 42 per man hour.

A small athletic field job is mininmum of
$ 2,880 per day in labor, plus materials and material markup. Thats $ 90 per man hour and the rate never changes.

Mininmum charge to show up for anything other than scheduled maintenance is 8 man hours @ $ 45 per hour or $ 360.00 .

[GLAN]

You ask what I would do?


If I had quoted a price prior to the job and not been paid as of yet. More than likely I would have lowered the price.

Had I quoted and been paid prior to the job.......keep the money.



Now mind you............I would have reduced the fee pending on who the customer was and what our relationship is.

There is a reason I have some of the same customers 20+ even 30 years.


On the other hand..........loyalty is becoming harder to find.

[Mark Oomkes]

A little off topic here, but in reference to raising the bar on pricing for landscapers, it is going the opposite way very, very , very fast around me. Have a couple companies that seem to think the lower the price, the better because they can get more work and get bigger and bigger. Both have been around for quite awhile and I know that both of them know better.

Had one that took a job away from someone else for less than half despite a minimum 1/2 hour travel time each way. The other contractor was in the same town as the property. They've been selling, selling, selling, but mostly low price. I see some problems coming for both of them in the future. Both of these companies have been way low on one thing or another for snow and\or landscape management pricing on a lot of their new work.

BTW, I would have felt a little guilty as well, but I wouldn't have changed anything. Like was stated, think about the jobs where you were off on your estimating and you break even or lose money.

[Dale Wiley]

it is going the opposite way very, very , very fast around me. Have a couple companies that seem to think the lower the price, the better because they can get more work and get bigger and bigger.

Happening all over the country. The very existence of my business is at stake right now.

Our market is being flooded with start ups. Several companies spent big bucks speculating and bought equipment, trucks, store fronts. Every Hispanic that has a pickup was a gardener, is now a landscaper.

Every white boy between the ages of 20 and 35 that has half a work ethic is now a construction / landscape business. Selling work at $ 27 to $ 30 per hour. $ 5 under my conservative cost. Building decks 3 inches out of square, shorting materials, but still getting work.

A landscape company has about 5 full time on the books workers. He has another 5 " off the book" workers. Drops them off at job sites, with a bunch of hand tools, wheel barrows and says move this dirt, build a rock wall, dig trenches. No porti pottis, no place to get out of the weather to eat lunch, nothing. And he bills them at
$ 27 per hour. The homeowners love it.

He has taken over 30k of work from us in 2 months by prices 30% less than ours. He has taken over This is math folks, I know exactly what hes's doing.

The construction business is just booming here, and the state regulatory agencies basically don't respond or return our calls.

I can't fight them any more. I have to make my athletic field business work, or I have to get out of the business. I can't and won't operate on no or net profit margins of less than 8%. The math of good business says it is impossible to have a sustainable business under 8% net profit.

These a holes are taking a lot of money out of the market. Sure they will fade away when it goes the other way, but people operating legitimate, licensed, insured business are very much in jeopardy in my area.