[fakie99]

our design/build operation is small - me and my four employees. we used to plow snow but i dropped it this year and we shut the office down and i laid the guys off in the middle of november.

as i see it, this is the biggest challenge a company that shuts down for the winter faces: how do you develop a competent, comitted staff when you can't offer YEAR ROUND WORK?

i am a firm believer that you cannot have an outstanding company without outstanding, committed, career minded people (not everyone on the crew - but you MUST have one or two)

how can a business owner offset the down time and ensure that key people come back? i pay very well for our area during the season, and my guys file for unemployment at layoff - but i have lost a couple really good people becuase it's so hard to stay afloat financially in the winter with only unemploym. income.

i know one contractor who pays his forman 800 bucks a week during the season. the foreman makes 350 on unemployment in the off season, and the biz owner pays him the difference in cash to ensure that he'll be there next year. that sounds like an expensive way to make sure the guy comes back....

what are some of your ideas on the subject? it's been driving me crazy for a mighty long time.

thanks

http://www.treasured-earth.com

[Bill Schwab]

We moved to California and it fixed the problem. And in all honesty, even though my wife made it very well said when we dated that she was not moving back home, I had been looking to move south for a few years.

[GLAN]

Not much else you can do.

With the unemployment you provide info such as "Temp Layoff" and "return date"

That return date only means that they are intended to return to work on a given date......should they not show up. You then have recourse to stop unemployment benefits.

None of it means they have to, or will return to work for you.

We do snow services. I need it and it helps put extra $ in the pockets of a couple of my guys to supplement unemployment.

That guy who pays $800 per week and supplements the balance from unemployment......Yeah it may seem expensive.....as you said it's to his foreman. That's one key guy.

Maybe you shouldn't have gotten out of snow service totaly...rather scale back and keep some work out there for your guys.

[RHayden]

That will always be one of your major problems in a seasonal business. We also got out of the snow business a few years ago simply because it just doesn't snow that much around here anymore.

We postpone all large tree planting until as late in the season as possible. This allows us to usually work pretty steady until just before Christmas and the ground is usually frozen enough we can run the skid steer around without doing any damage.

I also begin looking in September to persuade some clients to wait to begin their projects during the colder months. This has to be the right kind of project like a retaining wall or patio and you have to use all of your sales skill to persuade these people to wait and to convince them to be patient as the weather may let you work a day or two and then shut you down for awhile, but it does provide a project or two to work on during the colder months. I work the process in reverse as calls come in over the winter to try and get back in the field usually around mid Feb.

We also let our key people come in and work on equipment etc a few hours each week.

Combine all of the above and the guys are usually able to accumulate enough hours to turn in a few each week which along with their unemployment benefit allows them to make close to what they do during the rest of the year.

[rbriggs]

We also have that problem somewhat, as our business tends to slow down in the winter. I think taking care of your staff, and creating a culture within your business, will keep them coming back. We have a few really talented college students who come back year after year because of the culture we've created. Sure we pay them well, but money isn't everything all the time.
During winter break, we try to get them some hours to pay for their beer or other expenses. In return, they stay very loyal to us.
As one of these guys told me the other day, "We don't see this as coming to work. Its not like work at all. We have a good time and it's more like a hobby." I"ve challenged him to find me 4 or 5 of his friends who will feel the same way this summer. I've even offered him a bonus for finding me a few guys that will workout and stay for the whole summer.
I'm not saying all of our staff are like this. In fact, we have many who view this as simply a job. And were are trying to overcome this by providing a perception of individual ownership within the company.

[Rick Carver]

This is always a tough one.

Unemployment is often looked at like it is below us to accept I feel.
Years ago I changed my attitude and started talking to all my employees and especially the new guys that Uemployment is part of the companies plan. For XX time most employees can count on being laid off.
Then I found what my highest unemployment mod was ever going to be and added it into my chart of accounts. Making sure I always will pay the highest and make sure I have it recovered.
I then put together a winter layoff work schedule. In most states we can pay our laid off employees XX % a week without it hurting their benefits. Find out what it is for your state.
I would allow the most senior employees first choice of working what ever it is we have to do. If snow was forecasted everyone that was QUALIFIED TO BE PUSHING SNOW was on call. (another story)
Also,,,,, my employees made a bunch of money and always normally recieved the top allowed sum of benefits. Still it isn't the same ya know?
So next I started to put together a SEASONAL BONUS program that was payable to the employees AFTER they returned to work. Not a bunch of money, but like between 500 and 1000 most of the time.
Also,,,, some of my guys were allowed to order their home heating fuel on MY ACCOUNT,,,, gift certificates for shop rite groceries were always a big thing to. (mostly company written off)
As the company grew we experienced that our employees were doing great and really looked forward to lay off.
With this growth I included built in opportunities for the most advanced guys and for those who were always looking to better themselves. This included layoff but the time off would become less and less as you learned more. I then put an unemployment fund % built into every hour I sold. This in turn would be used to help secure the funds needed for winter unbillable time work without hurting my bottom line.
Also,,,,, I networked with some other companies and restaurants and always found work for guys who really didn't have enough means to make their ends meet.
The best networking is with other landscape contractors that you can TRUST. I was lucky to have a couple of owners who only wanted what I did with regards to using labor when needed etc. Some ran much bigger snow operations then we did and needed extra guys sometimes. (Make sure you understand the dark side of this if your relationship with another company isn't up to par,,,,)

Late season pruneing can be sold in the spring contracting season at a discount if signed up for it by XXX date.

Seasonal lighting seems to work well also.

Firewood sales and, contract for auto delivery for your customers and a coupon for a discount after so much is bought.(maybe suggest that they let their family and friends buy from their account because it is cheaper and cheaper for your customer the more they buy) ;-)


What ever you do plan and budget for what you have to fund for the whole year within your contracting season!
Good luck!
Rick

[johnkeegan]

As I stated in other threads, I may just be lucky but my guys actually look forward to being laid off. They always get a little gitty-up in their step when I say around Thanksgiving that they'll be getting laid off in a week.
Alot depends on the person and how well they budget their money. And if you find the right person treat them right. My lead guys make $18-20 per hour, have health insurance year round and matching retirement, 11 paid days off, time-and-a-half after 8 hours per day, substantial year-end bonuses, clothing allowance etc. And, probably most of all, I let them know they're appreciated. And, secondly, I've learned to bite my tongue and live with their quirks and occasional f***ups. Basically, I treat them with respect.
And, as I said, either I'm lucky or on to something because the foreman of my softscaping had been with me for 13 years and the hardscaping boss has been with me for 8 years (and the one before him 10 years before I permanently laid him off).
Also, be up front when hiring someone. Tell them you work from mid-March to the end of November and then they can collect unemployment. Watch their reaction. If they start hemming and hawing, don't hire them to any important positions. But you may have a keeper if their eye brows perk up and they say, "Really. I don't have to work outside in the cold AND I still get 1/2 pay (umemployment) and all winter I'm free to do what I want." It's actually a good deal for many. Especially, if they pick up a little side work in the winter.

[cutntrim]

It's the nature of the business unless you live somewhere like Bill does. A large company here "banks" employees hours and then in effect pays a salary wage all year-round. I've posted about that before, and some guys in the States said it's illegal down there. I wonder whether an employee would not be o.k. with a lesser $/hr but get it all-year as compared to a high summer wage and nothing in the winter. Budgeting is not a strong point for many people, not the least of which manual labourers. I know I don't like the supplemental cash payments idea though...

[johnkeegan]

cutntrim- Laid off workers don't get "nothing" all winter. They can collect $300-$400 per week unemployment. My understanding with the "banking" of hours is that it would prevent the laid off employee from collecting their unemployment. The employee is getting underpaid during the busy time, perhaps even shorted on overtime, and then barred from unemployment they could recieve in the winter. If I tried that with my longterm, dependable employees they would probably leave. And I can't say I would blame them.

[cutntrim]

Well, I haven't tried the "banking" strategy, but as you say, I'd tend to think most employees would prefer all their hours being re-imbursed as they work them.

Employment insurance isn't nothing, but up here at least it doesn't amount to much. Not enough to get by for most $12-$14/hr summer employees. Perhaps in your state, and at the wages you pay, it is different.

One thing I do know is that they claw-back EI payments dollar-for-dollar above a certain threshold of earnings. If I recall it was something ridiculous like $50/week that the guys could earn before losing an equal amount of EI benefits for every other dollar earned.

If I could afford to pay my guys $40g per year I wouldn't have this problem, but I can't...

Back to the original question about alternative winter work - I would agree with GLAN that maybe keeping snow plowing as a service would help. You might have been able to scale-down without eliminating it entirely.

[John T]

For those that pay bonuses another option is to have a vesting period for payment of that bonus. For example, your bonus is based upon production over a 2 month period. Let's say the 2 month period is July and August. As of August 31st the books close on the earnings of that bonus and a new bonus period starts. However, the payment of the bonus earned for July and August is not made to the employee until then next bonus period is up. Hence a two month (or whatever period of time you choose) lag. If the individual leaves the company before the bonus is paid, they forfeit the bonus. This can be used year round to help stop high turnover and retain good employees as whenever they decide to leave they will be leaving a good chunk of change on the table. This is known as the "Golden Handcuffs". To encourage them to return the following season simply pay the last bonus period of the year in the spring after the first bonus period of the new season is up. This will prevent the guys who show up for week one, collect their bonus and quit.

[nalandscape]

My company was actually born as a result of the "winter" problems that you discuss. We do the demolition and installation LABOR for the company that my husband/partner used to work for. They actually helped us start our business two years ago. They are a Larger retail nursery & design/build company that was faced with the decision to have their landscape foreman piddle around the greenhouse 32 hours a week or lay them off.

They offered us an opportunity to subcontract for them. They sold us one of their old trucks to get us going. We carry our own liability, WC, etc. We wear their shirts when we are on their jobs. We've have offered to get magnets for the trucks for their jobs.
They Grow and Maintain Plants and Kepp Product Inventory, Design and Sell, and they still have a few foremen on the payroll. BUT, they no longer have to pay ins or work comp or unemplyment on my husband, do not have to pay insurance, fuel or maintenance for that vehicle, etc, etc. and they're jobs still get done. We work directly for the project manager & designers.

We, of course, still take our some of our own jobs, and have picked up another designer that we install for. In my extensive research, I have found that this may be a Unique situation in landscape. We have approached other landscape companies with this concept and they are generally reluctant, a few have been interested but were unsure of how to bill for it. We keep trying, though. Right now we just have one GREAT crew, but hope to add another crew next year.

Now, perhaps if that happens, I will be faced with the lay off factor...but General Labor is a little easier to find, it's the Loyal Foreman, Supervisors and Salespeople that you need to keep around.


Good Luck,
Shannon
Northern Atmosphere