[Dale Wiley]

Turtle:

I apprecatie your input and a son's perspective on it.

Besides, as most of us who are parents realize, different kids are simply born differently. From day one they are hard-wired uniquely. So, at age 16 some may thrive on physical activity and pushing themselves to the limit. Others may not want that until their 25 or maybe never. But they thrive on intellectual activity and academic challenge. Does it mean you raised one "right" and the other not? And which one do you think will really be happier, which is all any parent should be concerned with

I think what John says here is very good and I want to agree with him on it. Kids are different and a lot of it is biology and not a thing we can do about that.

In my posts, you may note I have 2 different sets of son's. My biological sons both worked summers for me. Great workers, on time, excellent operators, loved to challenge my way of doing things.

They both joined the Marine Corps. Went through Marine basic, which in itself is a tremendous accomplishment, and certainley shows they are not afraid of hard work. Both are stationed on the East Coast and doing very well. Working on college degrees now.

I have 2 step sons. I have been the only father figure they have ever known in 17 years. Mom is a very hard worker and smart. Dad is a lazy POS, who never contacted them much. Both boys barely made it through high school, neither wants to expend the effort to go to college or trade school, one been in trouble and has minimal contact with the family and the other works for me, and is doing OK, not spectatacular, just OK.

Sometimes I think parents might rely on their kids as being the best foremans and workers they ever had and never let them move from that position

I brought my kids into the business subject to the same standards anybody else would have to meet. I would be more than happy to advance them or anybody else who can meet the standards needed to advance. These standards are clearly spelled out in our company policy, and the Learn to Earn program within the job classification schedule.

feel that well i worked my @$?! off and wasnt in the office until i was 30 so he/she can too

We call this reality. We call this growing a business. We call this experience. If any person, relative or not that works for me, can demonstrate the skills to meet the higher level of job descripition, wheter they are 30 or not, then its a done deal. In order to prosper in this business, you have to have a little EXPERIENCE. That experience can include field work, project management, mechnical work, basic office work, and POST SECONDARY EDUCATION beyond high school to at least an Associates Degree , trade certification or any combination of AT LEAST 2 years. If you went beyond that, its gets better. Technical knowledge in this business is great, but education in Business Administration is better yet. An AA degree in BA goes a long ways in ANY career PATH / CHOICE.

That education and a level of field experience says that you are going to be at least 27 to 28 before you even remotely have a level of experience to run a business, IF you have the dedication and drive to understand the importance to devote ones self to career development and education whilst sacrificing self gratifacation and party times.

Decisions have to be made for the good of the company, and not just for one individuals sake. Meeting the same company standards has to happen. Sitting on your ass in the pickup talking to your girlfriend on a company paid cell phone while your crew works in the rain is not going to indicate you have a level of maturity or experience to advance in the business.

A parent or boss knows when a person is ready to advance, when that person has the concern of the business at heart, and when that person truly wants to improve themselves and help the business advance, and recogninzes the world does not revolve around them and them only.

If any of my kids wanted to take this business over, they would have to meet certain standards, and they would truly undertand the hard work that is required.

seeing how our parents handled situations and so forth so i think our learning curve is less.

The learing curve is less, because your parents have already went to the HARD WORK and emotional pain that comes with building a business. If they or anybody else had a structure to step into, anybody's learing curve would be much less, and with many, many less bumps and bruises along the way.

I have just been beat up a lot in this business, and have a business that needs to support me for at least another 13 years. When kids leave high school and even college, it's up to them to move forward from there, and their decisions as to how they progress are theirs and theirs alone to make.

Thanks again for a son's perspective. It does us "old" guys good to hear that side of it.

[VoodooChile]

We've attachment parented from the get-go, Spiderlilly staying home for 14 years to raise and homeschool the 4 kids until just this last Fall, when the youngest hit Kindergarten age.

A big part of that attachment parenting approach has been involving the kids in the home-economy: babysitting, kitchen clean-up, bread and pizza making, vacuuming, yard clean-up, hauling the cans to the curb, tending to the pets, are all tasks that the kids took over years ago. And I tell them, once they have Mom and Dad's skills, they can leave the scut work behind for more challenging tasks.

I view our business as an extension of that home economy, since the phone rings in a office down the hall, the trucks and equipment are in the garage, the stock is out back, and the design concepts are in the front yard. With a different business model, there would be separation, but we aren't there yet, and I doubt I will ever (want to) be. For better or worse, the business is an integral part of the home.

I harbor no illusions that all, or even any, of my kids will find their future working full-time with Dad. Nevertheless, having the oldest out in the field blowing leaves is for me a writ of manhood. Learning firsthand what Dad does, being one of the guys, coming home tired and satisfied after a good day's work, these are all "things" I can give my kids, much more valuable than the I-pods and S.U.V.s I can't and wouldn't give them.

My late brother-in-law owned that farm with his father, and I can only hope that I get to share with my kids a fraction of the camaraderie and love those two had for each other during the 18 hour days of eking out a living on 200 hundred acres of dry barren Pennsylvania dirt.