[HardDaysKnight]

Exactly VDC and JW made an interesting point.
If everything died because there was no care but just
a time frame, would we be saying " That's because you
guys rushed the job and didn't care and now it's costing me."
It can work both ways.

[Nebraska]

I came up with 11.75

[Nebraska]

This included plant pick up time etc....

[GLAN]

I am with HDK here in philosophy..

The men know what the expectations are...With or without me there. Often times I offer them to take a 5 minute quick breather, they don't usualy take it.....

Yet there are times when I am disappointed with their performance or decisions and I will let them know it.


Communication.......If I need to move past a job quickly for what ever reason.........I let the men know of that fact and for the most part what the reason is........example of doing a job for a customer knowing the bid was a little low......I'll tell the men that it would be greatly appreciated that they stayed focused here due to the low price of the job......

[Stonehenge]

I offer the same 1 year warranty as most everyone else - why am I the bad guy because we can plant faster?

It's true that few people can match my intensity and energy on a job site - but that's no reason to think I'm doing something incorrectly. This reminds me of a local association meeting where we did a volunteer planting of an area to boost the association profile. The only guys planting were company owners. With all these guys having had to instill work ethic in their guys by example, or having to spend a lot of time coming in behind a crew to finish/clean up, this was a helluva workforce. Even though everyone had a different style, everyone knew exactly what had to get done, and I don't think a job that large has ever been planted and mulched that quickly. It was fun to be a part of, and to watch.

As for the question by HRLand - mulching was added to the equation, and I don't know how spread out this bed was, if mulch had to be trucked to site and wheelbarrowed, etc. It wouldn't add a ton more onto the job, but it would add something.

I think HDK has a style similar to mine - I don't always crack the whip; sometimes I'm down right sweet. But I always try to be as energetic as I can, both for me and for the crew - it's harder to be a laggard when the boss is bouncing around the jobsite.

And I've done something similar to GLAN - I'll tell the guys that this job was spec'd as a three-day job, and today is day three. That's about all I need to say - they know what I mean.

[HRLand]

Actually the mulching wasn't included in the time to plant, it was after.

I would think that planting on a berm has to be faster than in hard packed fill that was placed 20 years ago.

[Stonehenge]

Maybe - this berm was 5-6' high, and steep enough to be difficult to walk on. Easier digging, no doubt. Harder navigation, also without a doubt. Which is harder? I guess you'd have to be here and me over there to know for sure. And even then there'd probably be differences of opinion.

But overall I think your frustration is justified.

[cutntrim]

I had three guys REPLANT 11 Black Cedars (6') and it took them 5 man-hours just last week. The existing holes were widened and sand, and peat moss was mixed with the native clay soil, and a handfull of bone meal at the bottom of the planting hole. They had only one wheelbarrow (don't ask), and moved the trees (B&B) maybe 150' to be planted...so in your situation I think they did what I'd expect them to do time-wise.

[jwholden]

I often observe that I could do things quicker by myself. I then imagine working by myself everyday and trying to tweak every second of the day to be the most efficient landscaper on the planet. That scenario doesn't appeal to me.

It has come time that on Tuesday I am going to have a meeting with my crew and outline/review my expectations. I have a great bunch of guys, but I have let them slide too long. We will discuss my expectations regarding loading up the wheelbarrow more than 1/2 way, protocall when arriving at a jobsite, break times and lenght, etc.

I don't want to be angry and encourage them to quit, but explain what I expect and if they can't do it the last check will be here on Friday. I have a long time employee who feels he can slide, productivity from the newer employee is diminishing because he won't work any harder than the long term guy.

My thoughts are 1/2 hour meeting in the morning with some pictures regarding my expectations as far as what a full wheelbarrow is, list of protocalls for what to do when we arrive at a job, time of breaks and how long they are, and reinforce that I need my crew to keep moving (didn't say running) all day. The Dingo may be earning its pay sooner than later.

At the end of the meeting the guys can go home and think about it (I'll cover the day). If they come to work on Wednesday I will take it as an affirmation of the written terms/ pictures we discussed on Tuesday.

Comments?

[cutntrim]

Hmmm. I don't know your guys, but it seems to me that if it's gotten to the point of having to show pictures of a full wheelbarrow then maybe you need new employees. I tell each new hire that I can teach them the skills required, and show them the level of detail/quality required (maintenance-wise), but I can't teach work ethic. They either have it, or they don't. If they don't, then I don't have a position for them. Some may take a little while (even a couple of weeks) to find that drive within themselves, but usually if they don't show hustle right off the bat, then they won't likely be hustling any time soon.

[Stonehenge]

Originally posted by cutntrim
They had only one wheelbarrow (don't ask

ROFL - I have at least one of those "don't ask" situations every day.

JW - I'm sorry to hear your veteran guy continues to slide. This year with our new addition to the family I made the decision that I was going to get back into the field quite a bit this year, and fix some of the things that I thought were sliding over the last two years that I've been more or less out of the field.

Having begun righting the ship already, I'm not sure that you need to have a meeting and pay them for the day to let them think things over. My fear in your situation is that there is an expectation on your part that after this meeting is over, you'll never have to address this subject again. I think that with any person there are going to be things that you have to address every now and then, especially if it's a new behavior expectation....then you'll probably have to address it a lot in the first week or two. After that it should only be occasionally, if at all. But the issue needs to be hammered, right at the point it happens.

I have a guy that wasn't putting his full effort into pounding some rebar through some timbers, so I took his hammer and said "Let me show you, meow." Then I drove the rebar, gave back the hammer and said "There you go, meow." That was done jokingly and this guy has a good sense of humor, but got the point home. Other times a more direct approach is needed. But no matter what, it has to be addressed right then - kind of like catching a puppy at the time it's peeing in the house. 30 minutes later doesn't do the pup any good.

I'm kinda rambling here, but my opinion is that no more than a 10-15 minute meeting is required, and then I would also work that day, and let all know they are being evaluated. See who rises to the top. You may find a guy has been waiting for the opportunity to impress you and will bust his hump to show you what he can do. You may have another you need to show the door. But I think giving them the day off sends a message that contradicts the urgency of the message you're trying to convey.

[Paul]

I have to go back to the orginial question, and ask this how many hours did you plan for this? Next I have to ask what kind of data do you have to support your times? Many times We as owners forget what we figure for planting times when we get to the job.

The other day I was over seeing a 4 man crew that installed the following plants,

10 3.5" Elms with 42" ball
16 7-8' Cornus Mas with 30" ball
61 5 gallon shrubs
200 1 gallon plants
1500 quarts of ground cover

all the above where hand dug in rocky clay soils that had been run over with 100,000 lb TS-14's.

The area had been left about 6" low and new topsoil was brought in the day before but not spread. Into the topsoil was mixed on site 25 cu yds of soil amendments.

The crew started on site at 6:30 am and was finished at 4:00 pm
All plants where watered but not mulched. All 6 loads of topsoil was spread on site. When finished I asked the crew foreman if this was a normal day and he replied that it was a bit light for plants but they normaly would have install the topsoil the day before!

I was hired by the Park District so I know what they where getting charged for this install, ($29,000) Do you think the ower made money on that day?

[HardDaysKnight]

Why not tell them on the morning of payday that you want
to see each employee individually, after work to discuss something
that's going down. You will have them thinking all day
and you can let the ones who are not performing know how upset you are and take it from there. At the same time you can
thank the ones who are doing right. It's not fair to group them
together in a situation like this.

[cutntrim]

Expanding on Paul's thoughts, it doesn't matter how long it took them to do the work...only how their time relates to the amount you figured into your price. Granted, if a crew is consistently slow and the owner adjusts his bids to reflect that - there may be fewer successful bids awarded.

[GLAN]

Originally posted by HRLand
I had 3 guys working on this yesterday and it took them about 4.5 hrs total. I expected more. Some days I just feel like firing everyone.

Even if 2 men were taking turns doing the holes for the Arbs and 1 doing the 3gal plants. 2 hours maybe 2.5 hours max.

Root balls on 6-7's are not that big