[cutntrim]

Starting a family will interfere more with cycling than landscaping will. You can train nights/mornings and race on weekends. Kids don't differentiate weekdays from weekends.

I like the economics of your neigbourhood. My 1600sq.ft. house goes for around $280,000 now and sits on a tiny 33' lot. Trade-off is that this is THE area to be working if you're a landscaper.

[Paul]

Not knowing how old your children are and when you want to retire. I don't know if expansion is what your looking for, along with what you want in life.

Caveats are a retirement home in a ski area ( or at least the ones I know of ) are not cheap, cost of living in those areas is not cheap. College cost are going to be in the low $100K in the next ten years (how many kids?). Retirement income? What do you imagine that you will need by the time you retire?

Most contractors need as a ball park figure around $100K per year to achieve some of what you are looking for at this time. Of course contractors in higher cost of living areas will need substantively more. Allowing for your house (if you have it now) to double or triple in the next 20 years and being able to afford the land in the next 15 years. You should have enough put aside by then.

We of course don't know what you do a year in business or what you bring home. But being a Valley Crest or Brickman is not necessary for you to have what you want.

A well managed business in the low $700k to $1M should provide you with what you are looking for. On the higher end it would allow you hire management to run your company while you do your thing. On the lower end it would mean more time at the office but not hurt your home time as long as you developed good long termed employees and have the management skills to control growth and spending.

[Paul]

Just so you know Mac I retired this year, I was in the postion to just close my business and sell off it's assets.

[Lanelle]

There is a lot of territory in this industry between the small $150K businesses and Valley Crest. Listen to Paul and look at some of the industry reports that show the average profit margins of various size and types of businesses in the green industry. Some of the mid size business categories have the best profit margins. Yes, you have to find your comfort level but remember that facing 10 or more hours of physical work every day will become less attractive as you begin to age. You can still get sweaty and work with the guys but you shouldn't let your business become limited by your own physical endurance. My husband had to have total knee replacement surgery this fall and yet the business still had income because there are employees.

[cutntrim]

Construction vs. Maintenance can also dictate how long you are willing and able to work in the field. A lot of what my company does is maintenance, and the machines do most of the work there. Walking behind a self-propelled mower, or riding on one, is a lot less strenuous than putting in a patio or a new garden. If I were solely construction, then I probably would have already stepped away from the shovel by now, and I'm only 35.

[GLAN]

I had this well writen response, but it didn't load..........so let me try again. I know it won't be the same as the first draft.........anyway.


From what I have read in this thread and it is common among the participants, is that it is not about "Status" or "Ego"

The one thing that has been consistent is that all have discussed there perceived "Comfort Zone"

I for one realy do appreciate what all have said thus far.

There is a "Comfort Zone" that is unique to each of us, and yet it is all the same.

Now I am not sure if all had when they started, envisioned and dreamed of having many crews, hundreds of employees. Thousands of customers, bringing in $millions upon $millions a year. I did.

Some years ago I was creating my dream.......in doing so at significant sacrifices. Then one day a chain of events was set in motion. It was the end of my dream. No longer did I have hundreds of customers, crews and labor force to support them.

That wasn't the end..........It was the beginning. Today I am at a point in business where I am the happiest. My comforts and needs are taken care of. Future plans are again in place. More importantly I realized my "Confort Zone"


We build a business to achieve a "Comfort Zone" so that we can live comfortably.

We build a business to meet the needs of our family, kids education, vacations and so on.

We work and build the business to secure a "Comfort Zone" in retirement.



Where this "Comfort Zone" is for each of us is ours to decide. For some a $200k business, others it's $million/s.


Some have what it takes to be a "Brickman" many don't. But I do believe everyone can achieve their "Comfort Zone"


And that's good enough for me.....................with room for just a little more

[Mac]

thanks everyone. Im very pleased with how you all have lead me through your responses. thank you. feel free to add more.

Jason

[cutntrim]

I'm not interested in comfort where business is concerned. Too much competition here to afford to feel "comfortable". Anyhow, Mac's got enough info here and in other threads to get him going. Some times you gotta learn from your own mistakes, as I know many of us have here. No mentors or educational internet forums when I started out only 13yrs ago...doubt many of the rest of you had half as much start-up info as some new guys get now.

[GLAN]

Maybe you understood "Comfort Zone" out of context, and thought it to mean.....to sit back, not to move forward.

That "Comfort Zone" is different for everyone..........

You talk about competition..............Yeah, I feel ya there. Come down here one day during the season. Talk about a flooded market. I discuss the situation in my area briefly in another thread.

As I said.............Comfort zone means different things to different people.............For some it may mean they are comfortable doing 300 accounts with a profit margin of say 10%...............Others it may mean doing 150 at a higher rate but possibly achieving a profit rate of 25% or more.


The interesting thing we may not realize in growing a business is that..........to achieve Brickman status.......profit margins are far less than we realize........Their only claim to profit is in doing a far greater number of accounts.

[Mac]

Paul or anyone, for reference sake- what profit margin should a 700k - 1mil maintenance business bring in? Thanks guys again.

[GLAN]

Originally posted by Mac
Paul or anyone, for reference sake- what profit margin should a 700k - 1mil maintenance business bring in? Thanks guys again.

Well.........I see that is being different for maintenance and installation companies. I think Installation profit is greater

My reference to 10% and 25% is just an example....

Where I am specificaly........on commercial maintenance accounts I am cosistently outbid to the lowest bidder. Some of the figures I am being told that won the bid.......I can't possibly see how they are able to provide even adequate service and come out with a profit.


I'll give you another example..........I lost a residential to a guy where we both now park our trucks.......I provided superior service and the last year we finished the total for that account was $1,650 +tax. This guy took the account over for $1,400 including tax.

Both of us did spring and fall cleanup. Weekly services. Shrub trimming 2x. He did 1 lawn fungicide......I do 2. His agreement was to do 4 ferts....I do 5. 2 insecticides, same as me. He does 1 weed killer, where I include 2.........He tries to charge if they call back in the fall.

He took a magnificant lawn, in less than half a season trashed it.


Now this other guy. He has 3 maintenance routes..... well more than 300 accounts. Some 15 or 16 guys.

Now mind you..........from what I can gather is that something like half or less he is doing full service for.....Many are just cutting grass.............But he has to feed his over head only by producing large numbers in a customer count.

And he can't retain most of the men from one year to the next cause he can't provide for raises.


Profit % fluctuate with expenses........One year there may not be any need to new equipment purchases.......Where as another year you find you need to replace some and have to purchase a new truck. etc....

[Paul]

That depends on how your company is set up.

For a sole proprietor, it would be from 15% to 35%.
Corporations, try to stay at 5% to 10%