[Lanelle]

This is not about snow plowing or de-icing. I'm thinking about the pros and cons of continuing to install landscapes and hardscapes during the winter. We are in a Zone 7 market so the ground seldom freezes for more than a few days at a time. Our soil is very wet clay. We have builders pushing us to continue to install even when conditions are lousy. Our plant warranty is void for material installed during Dec., Jan and Feb. but that's hard to enforce for our larger accounts.
I'm having a hard time determining when its better to lay off the guys versus continuing to work even though the profit margin will be lower due to slower production times. What are your thoughts?

[Bill Schwab]

Lanelle:

I say never stop working...Factor in the additonal time it will cost you to operate in the wet conditions and build it in to overhead recovery. We are one of the very few tha work when it rains out ehre and the suppliers are the ones who mess us up as they shut down...Go figure, when they say it is raining heard here it is barely a drizzle from where I am from....

[Lanelle]

Some of our commercial projects are rather long term and very competitive so building anything extra into the bid is out of the question. The recovery will have to come from other jobs at other times of the year.
When I say that the ground doesn't stay frozen, that means that it starts out frozen most mornings, thaws during the day and tightens up again after sundown.

[scl]

Which is the worst! When it freezes at night and thaws in the morning everything turns to grease and machines do nothing but tear crap up. Its almost a safety issue. If you have to bid your margins that close and don't meet your time frames, you're actually losing money, and you don't need that. On the other hand it always seem like the bigger customers push to the limits. No answers, I can just commiserate.

[dan deutekom]

I am with Bill

If you can work then work. Even if it means shorter hours every hour worked is billable time. Jobs at this time of year just have to be billed accordingly.

[Paul]

Because we are in such a different climate, I don't know if you figure these days as production days?

Here If we get passed our normal shut down date and can continue work we will. Our actual cost to do business is reduced, that makes up for the slower weather related job progress. Here we figure we get about 180 to 200 days production if we figure in some Saturdays. All of our overhead is worked in to those production dates. So any time we gain over that has a higher profit rate.

[Will Pacala]

I too am with Bill on this. Continuing the work also keeps the employees around and constantly with you. It also can depend on what type of "Winter Work" you will be doing. Plants may not be good to do in winter, but hardscape why not. Just realize that ssince it is still winter the snow may still fall. If the storm comes and forces you to stop working.....clients may not be happy and freeze/thaw or wet and mud may become an issue as soon as the snow melts.

Aside from that, I say yes continue working if conditions permit!

[agla]

Your profit margin is less, but some profit is better than no profit. I would limit the hours to no overtime.

We try to set up for hardscapes by starting gunite pools late in the year, so that there is plenty of hardscape to work through the winter without hopping around. There is coping, tiling, concrete slab, stone to put on the slab, footings for retaining walls, stone retaining walls, back filling, grading, .... all in close proximity. Then we come out of the winter ready to plant and finish the rest of the job.

It does keep the help locked on as well. Especially if most other employers are laying off their help. Lay off the less productive people.

You can't make up lost time or lost work.

[Will Pacala]

Sorry I didn't reply to this thread sooner but..... Agla, You do gunite in pools? I never knew. Do you contract out or do it yourself?? Do you excavate the pools as well?? I agree with you that hardscape should be done before the softscape like you had said.

[agla]

I don't own the company. I have two jobs that I have switched between in the last few years. One is a land planning company (Civil, survey, LA) and the other a design/build landscape. I currently work full time with the land planning and part time with the design/build, but have worked full time in the design/build more so than not.

The design/build does gunite pools. We sub pieces of it, but maintain control over every bit of it from design and permitting to completion. We bring in a specialized excavator, pool plumber, steel guy, electric contractor, gunite crew, and plaster crew. We design, layout, coordinate, tile, coping, decking,... In the distant past, he found that pool contractors would slam in pools with no regard to the "big picture" and would follow their own agendas rather than plans and elevations.
It was all about controlling the outcome of the project and not having to adjust to other's work. The company does five or six pools a year as part of landscape projects. Some are "naturalized" with natural stone coping, waterfalls, and dive rocks. Others are rectangular which lend themselves to a more formal look and automatic covers. There is a link on my web page if you click on "Crossroads" (it is a prototype web page, the official one is www.crossroadslandscape.com which was "built" by a "pro" by simply copying my prototype)