[ecoscapes]

I have made a couple moves to start doing small commercial projects. Up to now I have basically only worked for residential customers. I am wondering if there is some things that I should be aware of in the commercial arena? One that I am looking at is a fast food establishment, a new building, the other is a small strip mall owned by a wealthy property barron. I just want to make sure I cover all my bases and have found this forum to be excellent!

[Green4Me]

expect slower payments,
build a great relationship with the superintendent and it will help your work go easier, and he may just watch out for your part of the work, like giving you notice more than the same day that concrete is scheduled to be poured.

on the plus side, you are probably working from an approved set of plans not subject to change unless you are well compensated.

good work, just watch your cash flow

[ecoscapes]

Thank you Green,
I fiqured it would be good to get a bigger line of credit just in case I need it to tie things over. So far I have always done 50% down and 50% upon completion as far as payments. Is that out of the question, what should I include in my contracts for payment? I saw Stonehenge includes in his contact 20% down, then 50% at start and 30% upon completion. I would guess that is only for residential. What do you commercial guys do?

On another note -- I tried to get into another commercial project awhile ago and the project manager said they only hire union landscapers. Does anyone know a good way to get into the commercial market? How do you get to bid those projects?

[agla]

Usually, ....

Commercial work is fully designed before the ground is broken.

General Contractors bid on the entire job and get bids from subcontractors. This means that you (and several others like you) need to be able to price the work out and get it to the GC before he even has the job. That is considerable time invested up front, just to be aware of.

If you get the job, you will be working as a sub for the GC rather than the owner of the project. The GC is looking to get the whole job done within a time frame. He is like a military general in that he wants to attack it on all fronts at full capacity up to the day it is done. That means the painters, electricians, and carpet layers will still be there when you are finishing up. Everything is going to be in your way and unless it does not make a difference to someone elses efficiency, the GC is not going to clear people out of areas so that you can landscape it until it is absolutely necessary. Then your scheduling is a little bit outof your control. For that reason, GC's usually hire larger subs with lots of man power that can get in and knock out a great deal of work in very litle time. They also tend to use subs that they have worked with before and know the routine.

You also have to completely read and understand all of the plans and spec's because these guys make a living at exploiting wholes in them. most of these guys play hardball and know the game very very well. It can be a very tough arena.

The things that can kill you are like having to bring in adequate topsoil for the lawn. Then you get there and find curbing 9" above the subgrade. You thought you'd bring in 4" of loam, spread it, and be laying sod the same day. Instead you are bringing in 5" of fill and grading it when you never thought you'd need to. You can't assume anything and you can not have expectations of the site conditions for when you arrive.

It is not always that way, but it often is.

Chances are pretty good that the GC's will only take bids from you to show how much less the guy he really wants to do the work is. He does not want the side show of someone who is not used to working under these conditions, so it is difficult to break into this arena. ... but they'll still call you to have you spend all your spare time writing up proposals and finding mistakes on plans.

It is a good business, but it is a different business. This is from the perspective of a person that followed civil engineering projects through from design to finish including the landscape plans.