[TrickyDick]

Where do you draw the line when it comes to replacing plants that a client has destroyed? We have a client, a lawyer, for whom we did a small design and install last year. Four or five of the plants- Ilex, Rhody, Pieris- in a group are in really bad shape. Dead branches, die-back, etc. They clearly either drowned or dried out and since we had one of the warmest, dryest winters in history here I can say pretty confidently that they did not drown. Problem is that as far as I know there is no test to prove that something died from lack of water so if the lawyer decides to be unreasonable....?

So for all of you is there a dollar value below which you will appease a client and above which you tell them to go to hell and take your chances with a lawsuit? And how do you protect yourself from this kind of thing. Our warranty and the things that negate it are pretty well spelled out and I'm careful to tell people they need to water right into winter if it's dry, especially with plants like those. But if they say they did I can't prove that they're lying. It's not that big a deal...probably $4-500 including labor to replace...but it's not cheap either and I don't like losing.

[TrickyDick]

And yes I know....don't work for lawyers.

[HardDaysKnight]

This is an interesting thread you may have missed.
Check it out.
Plant guarantee 1/2 the cost of replacement

[Dale Wiley]

Why would you give a warranty on a pershiable product without an automatic irrigation system AND a maintenance contract ??

You have no control over the care of the plant material after you install it, yet you want to guarantee it even if it is not cared for properly ??

We had to replace 4 deodar cedars trees that a client probably killed. Our net loss on the replacement was about $ 1500 in labor and materials. This was on a job where we netted $ 2,200 since the guy turned out to be an hole.

The good news is that our residential business is now down to less than 20% of our gross revenues, and our net profits are up.

We are still in the hole overall, but should make some progress towards a yearly net profit by seasons end.

[HardDaysKnight]

That was my point exactly in the link I provided, Dale.
No irrigation, No warranty. When customers ask me about a guarantee, I have this line for them: Yes there is a guarantee.
I Guarantee that you will not water this property efficiently enough and if you dont have an irrigation system installed...
these plants will die.

[TrickyDick]

I don't know how to do the "quote" thing yet. I'll have to look into that. Dale the answers to your question are many, though probably none of them good, but for starters...

1. We would be the only ones not giving a plant warranty around. I know some folks who give longer warranties with a maintenance contract but no one that does less than 1 year.

2. I don't want to do maintenance on most of the properties we do installs on. We only do high end residential maintenance and are not interested in the hassle of dealing with smaller properties or trying to be competetive on price in that market. We do plenty of small install jobs though and most people still mow there own lawns.

3. I don't know jack about irrigation except the speed dial number for my irrigation guy and don't have the time to learn now. Also it is harder to sell irrigation on a small job as it is, proportionally, a much larger cost. We do always sell irrigation on large jobs. This is also an area where only very high end properties tend to have irrigation because in most years it is not needed (except of course for new plantings).

4. I never really had a problem before.

You're right though. It is pretty stupid to guarantee something you don't control but it is also standard practice. We do factor replacing some plants into our pricing and very rarely have to replace them because of good planting practices so we probably come out well ahead in the end. But I'm suddenly alarmed to the possibility that any client can not water their plants and let them die and I can't prove that it's thier fault if I have to. Maybe I've been lucky to have no problems or maybe I've just been stupidly naive.

I want to keep clients happy and don't mind giving something up occasionally to that end but I really don't like feeling taken advantage of.

HardDays- Thanks for the link. There're a lot of good points in there. We may have to rethink how we do this.

[HardDaysKnight]

We have been very succesful not charging for a guarantee but simply telling them...If something doesnt make it we will
replace it at cost, price of item + gas costs, and install free
after recieving payment and at our earliest convienience.
It's worked for us. Otherwise charge 3 times the amount retail price for everyrthing and you wouldn't care, but might not get the job due to the inflated number.
I know what we planted ...where we got it... how it was cared for
before we purchased it...and how we planted it.
After that....It's thiers, I tell them to take care of it.
My Line: How do you like the job?

It looks loveley. Thankyou. I can't believe it's the same back/front
yard!

Great! We're glad you're happy. REMEMBER: We just spent
hours and hard work planting " Living Things" on your property.
Water them and take care of them. They are like outdoor pets
that rely on you.

[spiderlily]

Our contract guarantees plants under specific circumstances, but clearly states that a labor charge may apply. Since we are in a business of building relationships, 70% of the time I replace at no charge (and usually sell them their next phase of work while I am doing it.) 30% of the time, I politely explain why it is not covered and run away as fast as I can. I almost never actually charge for the labor to replace plants.

In your situation, I might explain to the lawyer that the plants are failing, offer a passive-voiced, no-blame reason why this might have happened, tell him that I would be very happy to replace them at no cost to him for the plant because I value his business, but that, of course, I will have to charge for labor. Then I would get him to sign a change order/extra work order, and then never work for a lawyer again.

Whatever you do, even if you do it for nothing, get him to sign some sort of release. As a lawyer, he expects this sort of thing.

[Dale Wiley]

We would be the only ones not giving a plant warranty around.

Is this going to keep you from getting jobs ?? See below suggestions...

I don't want to do maintenance on most of the properties we do installs on.

Understandable.....I would look at developing a relationship with a company who does, and then require that the client accept YOUR plant maintenance program , and have the REPUTABLE maintenance company do twice monthly plants maintenance for the warranty period.

his is also an area where only very high end properties tend to have irrigation because in most years it is not needed (except of course for new plantings).

I don't know where you are at, but I live in one of the wettest areas in the US. We have 2 seasons, rainy and cold, and hot and dry. No landscape can survive and look good with out supplemental watering, unless your tropical like Hawaii....I would think and try to sell that high end properties SHOULD be irrigated.

I never really had a problem before.

But you do now and you will in the future if you don't develop some sort of policy / strategy to deal with this in the future. One or 2 plants may seem minor, but wait until its 5 or so trees, and if you don't have some CLEARLY defined parameters as to what, when ,why and how you will warranty plants, you will take a major hit like I did.

I lost all my net on the job I cited, and a net loss needs to be multiplied x 2 to be fully understood.

get him to sign some sort of release.

Can't stress this enough. If you develop a warranty, make sure they sign and understand it. When the warranty is over, make sure they sign off on it at that time.

PROTECT YOUR NET PROFIT !!

[PSUscaper]

I now have no plant warranty. Did it for a while when I started out but realized how silly it really is.

The way I approach the matter is this. If they ask ask why I don't have a plant warranty, I simple go to my reference sheet and tell them to start calling people. What they will find is that in every past job, I have lost very few plants. What they will also find is that in 100% of the cases where a plant died, I replaced it for free or came to an acceptable comprise on the replacement price.

Does it need to be any more complicated than that.

I run a landscaping company, not a insurance agency.

[Dale Wiley]

I run a landscaping company, not a insurance agency.

Ding....Ding....Ding....



We have a winner......

that is exactly what it is, is insurance, and if they want insurance, they can pay up the for it like I do.

[Rick Carver]

HAYLOW folks,,,,

I am doing a little reading tonight,,,, I haven't had much time to lately,,,, this subject is dear to me heart. Fortunately (HAHA) I have been to court a couple of times regarding warranty/guaranty and contracts. If I can shed a little light on this,,,,, When we talk about warranty we are talking about insurance and this is a fact! Also with this language we have to understand LIABILITY. Who did what wrong? Right? Not really,,, not with a paid insurance policy, it is only a question of how much for what time period is my company LIABLE for!!!!! Well,,,, if there is a warranty/guaranty in place as part of the contract it has to have a VALUE. In other words, a PRICE for the warranty,,,, this is how I understand the contract law. If for some reason there is not a price (cost) (value of) for the warranty then actually the warranty cannot be defendable in court when any customer invokes the court for relief from the contractor. Also, we would not be protecting our operation and OUR NET with such an open ended insurance policy.
I suggest that you LINE ITEM the warranty on the contract or better yet have in place a seperate WARRANTY PAGE to be made part of the contract if the customer desires to! Yup,,,, give the customer the opportunity to explain exactly what kind of warranty and for how long they want the plants to be covered by this warranty. Give the details of the warranty INCLUDING THE ADDITIONAL COST or VALUE of this warranty coverage. This would also be explained as an optional extended warranty. I know,, I know,,, sooooo many contractors GIVE a year or whatever and most of the time do not charges for it,,,, they say it is part of the job?? HUH?? then somewhere there is a TRUE COST for this and the customer should be made aware of the fact! When the customer says well,, abc contractor doesn't charge for the warranty on the bid I asked for,,,,, all you have to do is explain the TRUTH. If the value or cost of the warranty is not clear or not clearly outlined in the proposal then most likely that will be what the warranty value is,,,,,, nothing,,,,,
Listen folks,,,, if you are not sure of this then seperate yourself from the mass amount of LCO who do warranty wrong. Tell your prospective customer that you give a company STANDARD 30 day warranty on all plant material,,,, no questions asked. You will replace FREE including labor for any plant within 30 days. After the INCLUDED warranty the customer may purchase an additional, OPTIONAL extended warranty from you for 6 months, 9 months, 12 months or what ever you negotiate, that includes any plant replacements up to $200,,,, or,,, $500,,,, or $5,000,,,, whate ever you negotiate and the customer is willing to pay for. NOW,,, IF YOU WANT TO BLOW YOUR COMPETITION AWAY,,,,, TELL YOUR PERSPECTIVE CUSTOMER THAT YOU WILL INCLUDE IN WRITING WITH THE WARRANTY TO REFUND 100% OF THE WARRANTY COST NOT USED FOR REPLACEMENTS TO THE CUSTOMER AFTER THE WARRANTY PERIOD IS OVER!!!!!!!!(maybe a small service charge would be non refundable) Tell them your not in this to sell insurance policies,,,, unlike your competition,,,, your not trying to make additional NET from selling warranties, that normally is not used, you would rather the customer use the money for additional up grades for plants etc etc. If they stay on the tune that ABC doesn't charge for a warranty then stick to your guns and tell the customer that you will give them the same warranty for the same time at the same price as your competition,,,, this will force your competition to come clean on there TRUE contract PRICE,,,,, and just what is the more PROFESSIONAL way of contracting,,,,, and,,,, still offer the refund back after the coverage time has expired! Always give another option that you will cover the install for LIFE,,,,,,,,,, as long as you have the maintenance contract with the customer. No contract for maint. then the guarantee is over. Of course this would be for new installation only.
Just remember,,,,, liability has to be handled at the point of contracting,,,, not afterward,,,,, afterward normally leads to bad feelings between you and your customer, court, and for sure the LOSS OF NET!!!! using my method will keep you from %^$#$% types of customers taking advantage of your best intentions.

Sorry so long,,,,, I believe I just had a fix!!!!!! A GTX FIX!!!! LOLOL
I hope everyones season is going GREAT!
Take care
Rick Carver

[Dale Wiley]

Hmmm.... I never would have guessed that a thread on warranties would have attracted Ricks attention...

[GLAN]

Thanks Rick


Seems kinda complicated.......in reality it's not.

But for some of us..........it would be kin to reinventing the wheel.






I am going to try and work out what you suggest and apply it to some upcoming work......see how it flies?

[TrickyDick]

Thanks Rick. You lost me once or twice in there but the basic idea seems like a good one. So you're saying that if there is not an EXPLICIT cost associated with the warranty it is not valid? And if there is such a cost can the warranty still be conditional?

I love this kind of thing...when I think I know only half of what I should know about a subject and it turns out I only know 5% or so. It's one of the things I like about this business, that there is always something to learn, but it can get frustrating sometimes too. Thank God I found this forum.

Oh and Dale...I am in SE New England on the water. Irrigation is a luxury around here. For most people irrigation consists of dragging a hose and sprinkler out on the lawn for the 2 or 3 weeks in August that it starts to go dormant in a dry year. Selling a 2k drip system for a 5k install is pretty unlikely. We have started doing more and more temporary systems with battery operated timers. Maybe we will start making that mandatory. At least it will work for a season.