[cutntrim]

For the maintenance guys: How much downtime do your crews incur? I'm slogging through my logsheets from last year, entering them into QuickBooks and it's always frustrating to add up the downtime for employees.

For me, Non Productive Time (downtime) = Load/Unload time, and travel time between properties. Fixing/maintaining equipment, dump trips, and gas station stops are tracked under "equipment maintenance".

Anyway, I've only entered logsheets for (2) guys in 2005 so far, but all (4) guys in 2004.

20% and 22.5% for the two guys (I'm one of them) entered for 2005 so far.

24%, 32%, 26.5%, and 27.5% for all four of us in 2004. I was the low guy at 24%. That's an average of 27.5% downtime for 2004 which seems high to me...

[Mac]

I agree that seems very high.

Personally, I budget and estimate for 20% and usually run well under that number. For jobs obviously over the 20% downtime ratio (far away), I will add time into the estimate to compensate. My ratio continues to improve each year too as I add neighbors and adjoining properties to my client list. I only have two properties that are not at least a double and just signed a neighbor to a group of 4 and am working yet another neighbor... that would be the entire cul-de-sac. For maintenance, density=profit.

[Rick Carver]

I am just wondering,,,,,,

If I don't estimate all the cost's of running my operation, how can my estimates ever be correct? If my estimates aren't correct or accurate am I losing money?

If you don't estimate drive time into the cost of that job , and you have to pay employees for driving, then in fact, don't we estimate every job with a built in loss.

Mac
If you budget/estimate 20% for " Non Productive Time" from what source is the money being taken from? Seems that you have a pretty good handle on the numbers here, so I am just courious why aren't the job estimate calculations being this source?

Rick

[cutntrim]

For me anyway, I spread travel time across my whole maintenance list so that everyone pays for it. Unfortunately that creates inequalities when close properties pay as much as far ones do. At least I'm recovering it though. I've thought about having my "stop" time for a job site (customer) end when the crew arrives at the next house, rather than when the leave the curb of the house they've just finished...Not sure if I'll switch to that or not. Anyone else time in and out that way?

[Rick Carver]

Cutntrim

OHHHH,,,, I gotcha.
If it helps,,,, what I had my estimators do was to calculate the time from the shop to the job,,, one way. Each mow job. This created a little extra time,,, and on some way to much extra. But never to little. Sometimes we did have to cut it back a little. But it is much easier to cut back then to add it eh? ;-)

Still have those other loss's to work out.
Can you have fuel tanks at your shop? We did, and man did it save a lot over a season.
If your not able to, maybe get one of those contractor fuel tanks for the back of your PU. Get an extra length of hose and park this PU where the crews will be passing it in the yard at the end of the day. May help ya a bit with saving more time towards production.

[Rick Carver]

Cut

I just forgot to ask ya,,,, when you spread the travel time over the whole rout, you do add this time under your estimate or you recover it under overhead?

[Dale Wiley]

Your overall average is 27.5%. Very high for support time.

That means your operating at 72.5% efficiency.

If you estimate a new job at ON SITE PRODUCTION times at 4 hours, then you need to add another 1.1 hours to recover and allocate the correct amount of support time.

Support activities are always and one of the few actual areas where you can increase efficiency.

Ricks suggestion about a fuel tank is good. If you can't do on site, do the truck thing. We have a 110 gallon tank and electric pump , it was in my pickup , but we moved it to the foreperson's support vehicle. I go to the station once a week and fill it up...
and they fuel all other pickups and equipment out of it. I am not concerned with individual truck or equipment usages, it's all fleet fuel. This could add 2% at least to the efficiency rate.

Could you hire a lot lizard to come in and dump pickups, wash equipment, load supplies and equipment ??? Put this position in overhead and keep your crews busy producing in the field.

Could you improve your debris disposal ??

One suggestion I have, is that you figure out some way to enter those times on a daily basis. You are seeing historical information over a one year period, and it is not allowing you to make the in season adjustments you need to make.

[cutntrim]

Excellent advice from both of you, thanks.

Rick: I recover the downtime/travel time/support time (whatever term you wish to use) in the actual estimates for monthly services, not in overhead. So, for example, a 30min. on-site weekly maintenance customer will be priced at maybe 40min. per visit multiplied by the number of visits per season. All my customers pay a flat monthly service fee on the 1st of the month, rather than T&M invoiced at month-end.

The fuel tank is a good idea, and one I've thought about in the past...but, I only run two trucks and most days they're nowhere near each other, and I need the space in the bed of each truck. One is only a short-box to begin with, and the other has to carry a bed-sander in the winter.

What I have come up with is this; I'll have one guy (foreman) arrive early (initially I'll try 15min) to load the equipment. The other employees can arrive at the normal time and then simply roll out. At least this way I'm only paying one guy for load time in the a.m. Then at the end of the day, the clock will stop for the employees when the truck pulls away from the curb at the last property. The foreman will still be on-the-clock because he's still working (driving) but the others are done. I've always paid for everyone to travel back to the yard, but have found out that legally that's not required. Makes sense. Do you know anyone working a typical 9-5 day that gets paid for their commute times? I don't.

Anyway, the foreman can either fuel up on the way home, or in the a.m. while loading the equipment. There's a gas station 1 min. from our storage yard.

Dale: I agree that 27.5% is way too high. It's costing me time, and my customers money...'cause it's them who pay for my efficiency or lack thereof. Every company should strive to increase their efficiency and quality each season, and I've got some work to do...particularly regarding the former.

So, how are the rest of you calculating downtime and what % do you feel comfortable with or strive for?

[Dale Wiley]

So, for example, a 30min. on-site weekly maintenance customer will be priced at maybe 40min. per visit multiplied by the number of visits per season.

You are covering your support times at that rate, but there is additional support times that you need to add in, that are not easily tied to a particular account time.

Another suggestion here....I think you should have a one hour minimum time charge, minimum of 1 hour for each account, regardless if it takes 30 minutes .

If that account goes past 47 minutes for the service, then you need to go above the 1 hour minimum charge.

[RHayden]

Originally posted by Dale Wiley One suggestion I have, is that you figure out some way to enter those times on a daily basis. You are seeing historical information over a one year period, and it is not allowing you to make the in season adjustments you need to make.

I believe this to be very important as well. If you begin to track this data daily you should very quickly be able to identify any unfavorable patterns that have developed and any steps you take to correct them will have an immediate impact on improving your efficiency percentage.

The fuel tank idea will also gain you loads of time. I used to have a split tank in the back of our G&A truck and I would "top off" the guys tanks as I checked on the job sites. We now have bulk tanks at the shop and it has proven to be an even bigger time and money saver.

[cutntrim]

I gotta admit, I'm not good at daily data entry. I hand out the logsheets every day - and we do always fill them out - but then they accumulate in a filing cabinet all year, leaving me hundreds of sheets to enter at the end of the year. That's what I've been working on today. During the season I let myself believe I'm too busy to enter the sheets each day. To be fair...I actually am swamped with work during the season (aren't we all) but I'll either stay on top of it this year, or add it to my bookeeper's list of items to keep up with. Currently she only does quarterly reconciliations for me in QB.

Dale: My minimum charge (for mowing anyhow) is $35, although unofficially it's been sliding more towards $40...which is the hourly labor rate I have been using. For me, $35 lawns are small residential properties (< 4,000ft) where two guys are in-and-out in under 20min. for the most part.

P.S. How do you guys highlight a quote from a portion of a response? When I do it, I invariably end up quoting a member's entire post.

[Dale Wiley]

Are your per hour numbers right on ??

At $ 35 per hour, you are probably working real / too close to cost. I doubt there is any business mowing grass, playing by the rules, protecting your assets, and trying to make money, that can compete and make at least a 10% net profit at that number.


I run as lean as they come and my cost is $ 34.76 per man hour.

To get a portion of a quote in a post, just hit the quote button, and when it puts the information in your reply, just highlight and delete the portions you do not want in.

[HardDaysKnight]

Dale, I think cut means he gets $35 minimum for a lawn and
he pays out $35hr for labor costs. He would be making $70hr for 3 lawns at 20 minutes each, minus costs.

[cutntrim]

Originally posted by Dale Wiley
Are your per hour numbers right on ??

At $ 35 per hour, you are probably working real / too close to cost.

Yeah, like HDK said I charge a minimum of $35/lawn (for cutting). Most of those take 15-20 min with 2 guys. My hourly labor rate that I charge for T&M is $40/man/hour. Looking to raise it to $45 this year.

[Rick Carver]

Cut
Do you mind me asking what your labor% rate is? Just wondering is all. When I see a unit price, like your minimum of $35.00 for a cut I start remembering some formulas from way back when I did things the same way. Also,,, do you calculate for the same % net with your mow crew as your T&M crew??
I always had a hard time figuring what I could do to get the same out of both??
Thanks
Rick