[Hamons]

I have ahd 15 calls this week wanting their lawns seeded.

I'm tired of having to talk them out of it - 1/2 or so have followed my advice and are going to wait -- but the other half just moved on and proably had soemone else do the work -- am I nuts for not doing it?

What are your expereinces with spring seeding?

[Stonehenge]

We won't touch them until May 1. We know there are going to be some who will have it done anyway, and that's fine. I try to briefly explain why we wait, and if they don't like that answer, I tell them we're not for them, and thank them for the call.

[GroundKprs]

Do it the easy way, Jeff. I know your weather is different, but here, if they really want a nice turf, I would get a perfect finish grade in spring, and seed with rye. Then Roundup first of Aug, and slit seed KGB in mid-Aug. Client cost is only a little more than trying KBG in spring, and having funky lawn all summer and lots of touchup in fall.

I did an early June rye seeding last year, was mowing 13 days after seeding. It was beautiful all summer, just a little area of melting out and lots of rust in Aug. But on that section of lawn, we decided to leave the rye to see if they can put up with disease in it. All lawn is bordered by unedged ground covers, and KBG would be a pain, growing into beds all the time. Did some touchup spot seed and slit seeding in late Aug.

Did pure KBG in their back yard in late Aug, but our weird fall weather kept temps up and rust was a bear. Hoping it dries enough this week to get seed down in weak areas there. With established plants from last fall, and this particular setting, most of these new plants will survive our normal summer. But on most sites, I would put rye now, slit seed KBG in Aug, and spray rye areas with Corsair next spring. That's for people who want a long term nice lawn, and an acceptable lawn while we get to long term.

Don't worry about missed sales today. Concentrate on quality with proper cultural practices. In 5-10 years, you'll be getting rewarded many times over for that type of approach. And the sell it now guys will still be scrapping along, if they are even still in biz.

[GLAN]

We seed spring and fall....All we are basicaly doing is spot seeding. We do it in early April and again with core aeration in late August - early September.

Spot seeding for us is not a big deal.....it is expected and normal practice here.

[Hamons]

Aneighbor of mine up the street spent a full 20 hours this weekend reseedign his yard. he used mya erator and verti-cutter. But he didn't do it in the fall liek I had suggessted to him, then he puts down K-31 fescue AND then he puts down Scoots with HALTS!!!!

I had specifically told him NOT to any of htese things. What an idiot. 20 hours of wasted time. Funnies thing is he said he doesn't understand wht he has to do this every year?

[GLAN]

Even if he waited for the halts 2 - 3 weeks the seeding would have worked

[Stonehenge]

Jim, do you find clients are willing to have the process take the better part of a growing season? It sounds like you get nice results, I just wonder about the patience of the client, and the number of phonecalls you'd have to field from April until September from the client.

[GroundKprs]

The rye planted in spring will do well for the summer - much better than a KBG spring seeding. And rye takes off growing so quickly, you have a good turf stand in a couple of weeks.

I'm not saying this is the best, or only, way to treat a spring seeding. It is what I have found to work best here. May need a variation in a different environment. To me here, it is the only answer to a new lawn in the spring, if the client wants grass for summer and still wants a good long term lawn. I have had people to just leave dirt on a new site until fall.

And don't even think of rye/KBG mixes. Testing at Purdue 10-12 years ago showed that in a fall seeding of various percentages of ryegrass and bluegrass, the only plots with a bluegrass presence next June were plots where rye was less than 15%. And have you ever seen a mix with rye that low? The rye grows so quickly, it shades out the slower growing blues.

Only way I have gotten blue to establish decently in a rye lawn is to Primo the rye lawn on Aug 10; mow to 1" on Aug 15, and within a couple of days slit seed straight blue. Don't have to mow for 5-6 weeks, because of the Primo holding back the rye. But the blue gets an uninhibited start, and both need mowing in the 5-6 week timeframe. And if that is to be a premium lawn, spray the whole thing with Corsair next spring, LOL. That's a neat way to replace a rye lawn without ever losing the green grass.

Jeff & Jeff, I do not think I could have sold any of these ideas 20 years ago, but reputation does have its payday down the road. And actually finding clients who trust that you know what you're doing is also something that takes time. Especially about grass.

[NC Lawnscapes]

THis is the problem with this MICROWAVE society we live in today

EVERYONE wants what they want and want it now.

You just have to be a good sales man and have a plan to sell them on and make sure they know a Perfect lush lawn is a work in progress.

OR LEAR HOW TO INSTALL SOD

[GroundKprs]

As someone so succinctly stated in another forum recently, "Speaking of sodding a new lawn, in the company of sincere turf managers, is like telling your fellow football players that you wear women's underwear."

[Hamons]

I have decided to test Jim(groundkprs) method in my area. I will be doinfg a test. I will document with pics and give regular updates on this thread.

[GroundKprs]

Good move, Jeff. But I'm not saying exactly what I do here will work 1000 miles away. Heck, it might not work very good 100 miles away. My purpose in posting is to help you think it out for yourself at your location.

If you are going to do a real test, consider a series of test plots. Something like 4 plots, in a square formation, so you have side by side comparisons to photograph. A university test area is hundreds of 3'x3' squares, with a 6" to 12" strip between plots. The strip is to provide a buffer between plots. In an area testing chemical sprays, it would be impossible to spray different chemicals on exactly adjacent test plots. I have usually just done adjacent plots without the interspersed strips.

You'll have to mark plots somehow so you can locate borders later. I use white plastic lawn flag stakes, about 1/8" in diameter, at corners. They will just be cut of by mower if too high, won't hurt anyone when stepped on. I usually have some fixed point to measure from to locate first stake. When you take comparison pics, lay a white string along borders to define them. Used to use 16d nails pushed all way into ground, located later with magnet. And how do you remember what the pics are 5 years from now? I have strips of white plastic to lay in photo area, and erasable grease-type pencil to write with.

And what (4?) plots to test? I'm assuming this is an overseed to improve an existing turf stand. Just my guess: (1)standard spring seeding in your area (Scotts seed off of store shelf?), (2) light (4#/K) rye seeding, (3) KBG seeding @ 2#/K, and (4) a control with no seeding. Take pics at least at monthly intervals, and consider leaving plots to be followed next year.

Why all the detail? Because your pics can be used as sales tools for the next 20 years, especially if they turn out showing dramatic differences. And with the pics telling the story by themselves, you'll have the confidence to convince a client what is the right way to approach his particular situation.

Seems like a lot of effort, huh? But one of my teachers was setting up a study of pin oaks, trying to find if genetics was a way to make a hardier pin oak. As he traveled the town, he noted locations of better looking pin oaks. Then he would go back to collect acorns from those trees, and plant them in a mapped field. He could then see if progeny of the good trees were actually better than normal pin oaks. BUT, to have real proof, he would have to take acorns from these seedlings and make sure that the genetics held true in next generation. So his real questions could not be answered in one person's lifetime, but he was starting the answer. And we can get our answers on turf in 2-3 years usually. How simple it is for us.

[NC Lawnscapes]

Originally posted by GroundKprs
As someone so succinctly stated in another forum recently, "Speaking of sodding a new lawn, in the company of sincere turf managers, is like telling your fellow football players that you wear women's underwear."

Please do Explain this one

Why would installing sod be a way of wussing out??

I can make a whole hell of alot more money by laying sod than I can ever think of making by seeding the old fashioned way and in turn it is alot more work

[GroundKprs]

NC, let's not hijack a thread with a totally different subject. I'll post a "Sod vs Seed" thread in the near future, within 3 days.

[NC Lawnscapes]

Please do I was just wondering what makes you say that