[cutntrim]

I'm a licensed operator/applicator here in Ontario, and have been for a number of years. Several years ago, I decided to convert ALL of my lawncutting customers over to fertilizing & lawncutting. Some had previously used other fertilizing companies. Since that time, I've offered only one program, and it's been a traditional-type fert/weed spray/crabgrass/insect control program.

This year I'll be offering an alternative to that, by incorporating a more "environmentally friendly" if you will, type of program. Plan is to combine 4 fertilizer applications with aeration, and a topdressing and overseeding.

For those of you that provide "organic" programs, what have you found to be effective: in growing lush turf, combating weeds/insects, and generating profit. What has been ineffective/unprofitable in your experiences?

As an example, I'm not looking at dethatching as a service to incorporate, because I think it's overly labor-intensive and I think the results can be equalled/surpassed by core-aeration. On the other hand, slit-seeding may be a viable alternative to topdressing and overseeding for some properties...

P.S. Maybe this post will help kickstart the dormant (pun intended) turf side of the forum for this coming spring.

[GLAN]

Rather than top dressing.............use compost tea...

Brew a batch of concentrate.......mix with water in a large sprayer and spray the turf. Water it in. Also good for planting beds

Top Dressing is fine....though the microbial activity takes some time to become active.....where as the compost tea is already active.

Was told can also spot treat with compost tea and Ferromec for fungal problem areas.

[Hamons]

I utilize alot of organics in the nutrient I give to all iof my lawns. Last year It was more than 75% of the nutrients applied came from organics.

I also use pesticides responsibly. I use preemegents and spot spray weeds. I like the idea of topdressing with compost -- but have not found a way to do it economically yet.

[cutntrim]

I haven't heard of the compost tea before. I'm sure it's environmentally friendly (as is topdressing), but I don't know how easy it would be to sell my customers that service. Side benefit of topdressing is that it helps to even-out bumpy areas of the lawn. Also it's quantitative in the customer's eyes. They can see us putting down the topdressing and then overseeding. Not sure they'd go for the spraying tea as easily. Interesting idea nonetheless.

Myself and virtually all of the other licensed applicators around here no longer blanket spray for weeds. I use backpack sprayers. Pre-M for crabgrass is used, and can be applied in areas susceptible to infestation (eg. sunny areas near driveway/road) and then we'll spread fertilizer without Dimension in areas where crabgrass isn't a problem - like under shade trees.

Last season was pretty rainy most of the summer, so the turf did well here. The density of most lawns crowded out any crabgrass, and insect problems (grubs & chinch bugs) were few and far between. My standard program has always included treatment for crab & insects, but the organic one will not. Instead it'll be an add-on that we can apply if monitoring turf conditions warrants it.

I've been looking at topdressing spreaders trying to find one that would work for us. Our residentials are too small (1/4a or less mostly) to use a tow-behind type. I'd like to get a quality push-type that we can use. Then I'll have to come up with a topdressing mixture to put down. Peat moss/tri-mix/sand type mixture perhaps? Haven't had time yet to look into it in detail...too busy with the snow season.

[GLAN]

Your size lots are alot like mine...1/4 - 1/5 many smaller.

The thing with compost topdressing is the time involved. Although I know exactly what you mean about leveling the lawns. I can't stand holes....I actualy spring or fall take screened topsoil with us and fill in holes and level off reasonable size depressions. Couple shovels we don't charge.....Wheel barrow we had a nominal fee.

I am currently a full listing of applications. I have never blanket sprayed for weeds. CGpreventer in spring same as you. Surface and below surface insecticide applications and fungicide apps.

Last summer was the first year we mulched grass clippings for all the properties we maintain...Lost only 2 cause of it. I am looking to ease up the dependency of all the chemical applications that we do.

Not sure of going completely organic or a hybrid program. Probably a hybrid....It would kill me to have to do extensive reseeding due to some odd grub problem. After so many years of not having to.....Same goes for funguses.....I would like to cut back to 1 application instead of 2.........and reduce fertilizer apps from spoon feeding 5x to 4.

What ever it is I do I have to maintain the extreme level of perfection in turf that I have had all along.

[GLAN]

Compost tea.........you brew it. I have been told that brewing it aerobicaly is the best way......

Take a 5 gallon bucket put in 3 or 4 gallons water......2 air pumps like for an fish tank......run one hose to bottom of bucket. The other goes into a.......lets say a cotton sock.......you take compost and fill the sock with it. The other air hose goes into the middle of that.

Now susspend the sock just off the bottom of the bucket and run the pumps.....after about 12 hours can turn off the one in the bucket......then after another 12 hours the one in the sock........

Now you have your compost tea..........Not sure of the mix ratio....1 gallon of tea to 100 gallons of water?

Basicaly this is what I have heard.......There is a guy doing this and has been for several years in my area. Time for me to get to know this guy better and I will report back what I find out along the way.

I also saw some things somewhere and been to seminars. Let me pull out and see what I have on this.....

[cutntrim]

One of the frustrations of lawn maintenance is that you cannot control the weather, nor can you force a person to water, or not to water. Under or over watering has an enormous impact on the appearance and long term health of the lawns here. Last summer we got quite a lot of rain, but previously we went through maybe three years in a row of drought conditions, and watering bans. That coupled with the fact that many customers almost never water, caused the lawns to suffer big time. Bare patches, weeds, and insects caught hold and many lawns have not yet recovered.

Guess what I'm getting at is, I hear you on not wanting to ditch all chemical apps. Fully organic, no-pesticide lawns can suffer quite a bit the first few years after going cold turkey, especially if the climate is harsh as well.

However, the propaganda coming from the "environmentalists" (certainly some of it warranted), has influenced the public. LCO's have to at least offer an alternative program to the old standby synthetic/pesticide types, or risk losing customers. Good news is that organic programs are not only better for the environment, but they can be just as profitable (if not more so), than traditional lawn care programs.

[GLAN]

Some websites

http://www.composttea.com/

http://www.taunton.com/finegardening/pages/g00030.asp

http://www.tcs-hydroponics.com/doc/organicprod.htm

http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deput...e/Tea/tea1.htm

http://www.npr.org/programs/talkingp.../2002/compost/

http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/compost-tea-notes.html

http://www.mofga.org/mofgm04c.html

http://www.ecovit.ca/tea-riffic/reference.htm


That's enough for now.....When I get the chance to look through seminar material I'll post what I find important and or interesting

[Paul]

Ok I have a question, It might even be a dumb one

How does this compost tea effect your license (pesticide) from what I'm able to apply, there are no EPA numbers for it, is one made to a standard?

I'm Lost on this stuff anyway.........

[GLAN]

The compost tea will not affect your pesticide license for it is not a pesticide. You are not using compost tea as a control substance.

Now if you were applying say Milky Spore for contrul of beetle grubs.....that is a control and your local DEC or EPA would be a better source for how they regulate it.

In my county "organics" are considered notification exempt. Meaning that we do not have to pre notify for the application. If the product label has an EPA # then the proper record keeping is necessary for year end reports.

County to the East and last one on the Island......To apply "Organics" Certification is necessary......If I had worked in that county the seminar I attended 2/23/05 would have given me that certification. Instead I took the 5 DEC credits.

Just a couple years ago there were no EPA # on "Organic" materials......But since "Organic" has progressed in leaps in and bounds at an astonishing quick pace......the EPA is following allong...As are the States regulatory. And the rules are changed and tweaked on a day to day basis.


But here is the good thing to come of all of it. We are now getting the science behind "organics" So that we know what it does, the impact on the environment and the affects to those that use them.

[outsideguy]

organics, has anyone used or heard of "natural green lawn programs? 5 step aps and is there an organic crabgrass pre em? what about grubs?

[Lanelle]

What about a MSDS sheet for the compost tea?

[GLAN]

Originally posted by Lanelle
What about a MSDS sheet for the compost tea?

No MSDS for compost tea.......It is not a pesticide

You can buy compost in ready made Tea Bags for making the tea........Or you can make your own Tea Bags from your own compost.

You don't need to meet any special requirement for spreading compost.........No MSDS, No EPA # noting of the sort. Compost is a natural product.......Mulch grass clippings.....What are we doing with the clippings?.....Composting them back into the turf.

The thing with Compost Tea VS. Bulk Compost is basicaly that the Tea is the end product all the bio/micro organisms, stimulants and inoculants are active and working at the time they are applied to the soil or foliage. Bulk Compost has to break down before the benefits of it are useable. Making the Tea you sped up that process.......Much easier to apply provided you have the equipment. Even a backpack sprayer would be enough if that is all you have.


Let me use this example.........Any of you collect grass clippings in the spring or fall........or all year for that matter? Dump the clippings in your dump truck.....Next morning you having a liquid dripping from the truck that stinks.....OK.......What do you think that is?

It is the moisture from the grass that is released from the blades basicaly due to the pressure of weight of piling the grass in the truck - kinda like pressing grapes - So what is that liquid? Basicaly it is a grass tea...................loaded with organic compounds. Especialy NITROGEN..... Green grass or any green is a Nitrogen source when composting. It would be the fuel for compost bins.

We can take that liquid dripping from the truck if we want. Dilute the solution in a spray rig and we would be spraying a natural Nitrogen source.........I wouldn't think this to be much different than Ferromec, just not with the Iron source.........Regardless the result would be a greener, growing plant.

[GLAN]

I dug up this thread cause I wanted to expand on it.


This 2007 growing season...I had implemented an organic lawn program.

Right now I have 3 test properties.....1 is my own home, another is around the corner and the last is new customer.....where we have the opportunity of starting from scratch. ( the lawn was trashed to start with )

My lawn and the one around the block we have been cutting with a mulching 22" Toro..........my mulch kits for the walk behinds got trashed last year taking them off........damn guy twisted the nuts and bolt stems right off.........So we didn't mulch this year. The other lawn was cut like all the others.

Understandably we know that transitioning a lawn from chemical to organic can result in a less than satisfactory lawn until the organic change over is complete..........general rule of thumb on this is that it can take up to 5 years..........average is around 3 years.......As I have been told.

Well......Here is what we did........the 3 lawns got power raked and cut very short in the spring. Core aerated and spread compost over the entire turf area.........well actual seeded then covered with compost......Result was awesome. Our first fert was an organic starter fert........then Corn Glutten.

Very pleased with the results......a very nice thick lawn was developing in all 3.........my front was sodded several years ago, so seeding that and results was marginal.

Then came time to address the broadleaf weed issue......my house has no weeds in the lawn to begin with........Around the corner had plenty, but a nice lawn, just lots of weeds......The new account wasn't to bad........so here I am thinking......Wow, just like I have been told......seed heavy, get a thick lawn and it crowd out weeds....So our approach to weeds from the start was to treat them chemicaly..........I can't see developing a thick organic lawn if the turf is going to compete with weeds......So we sprayed.

To date we have applied Corn Glutten ( not sure if I happy with the product ) Starter fert in spring and then 2 more organic ferts. We also had been spraying weeds and crabgrass all summer long.
The new account ended up with 40% crabgrass.........that we sprayed Aclaim to.......8 gallons over 2 sprays.......we are gonna get there this week to rake it out and aerate and seed.

Additionaly.........I had applied Milky Spore to my lawn and around the corner.........I was supposed to get nematodes to spray and battle the grubs......but there hasn't been a grub problem.

I purchased a 5 gallon compost tea making kit........I had to supply the bucket.......Came with 3 bags of organics to brew tea with..........I brewed a 5 gallon batch towards the end of June and used the entire 5 gallons in a hose end sprayer and sprayed my own property.........All I have to say.......WOW, AWESOME!.....my lawn was getting the beginnings of leaf spot in the back....as I was spraying and moving along.........I saw the grass turning greener as I looked back at was sprayed.........by the next day.....leaf spot, any and all beginnings of fungus was gone.....I had a fantastic looking back lawn in what seemed like over night. I also sprayed the shrubs, perennials, flowers and vegetables.

In July I brewed 5 gallons and sprayed all 3 properties.....I wanted to do another spraying........didn't get around to it.......I should as instructed try to do 3 sprayings....I think 2 will be fine.....4 would be great........Knock on wood......on the 2 other lawns........didn't have fungus all season that was worth worrying about.

I have one more fert application.......will not be doing a Thanksgiving app.......cause the organic fert would be wasted.....there is not enough biological activity at that time of year for an organic fert.

So that is where I am at

Yes I am treating weeds chemicaly......I am not convinced that Corn Glutten works..........though I was told by what I hope is a reliable source that Corn Glutten....like organics takes time and a couple years to be completely affective........In other words. I have to apply Corn Glutten year after year and continue with an organic program for the Glutten to work.........here is my thought on that...............If what I am told is true.....then for the Corn Glutten to be most effective.......it needs the bioligical activity to break it down thus activating the weed seed supression properties.......In that respect, sounds logical

So will have to continue to use it for the next couple years and see what happens.

Next year I would like to transition a couple more accounts....I have one commited so far.

All in all......I can say that I am actualy happy with the results I have gotten this year........but I also had a nice growing season with very few lawn problems.......other than weeds and crabgrass. We had a pretty wet season till about mid August.

[Prolawns]

Glan,
are you involved with network neighborhood?