[Pelican]

justgardens, I didn't make the inquiry, Dale did. I'm in my eighth season and just a bit younger than Dale is. I often find myself with little patience for both inconsiderate and incompetent people, I'd never imposition anyone with something I wouldn't want to deal with myself.

I've helped my friend out a couple times here with hand tools, but have made it clear from here on out he will not have further access to my tools,and that owning the proper tools is all part of being in business. He is 22 by the way.

My new competitor is more geared towards maintenance, and is not equipped for hardscapes which is my mainstay. I keep the maintenance division running to generate other work such as landscaping and hardscapes. It gets the trucks into neighborhoods and the phone often rings with "I saw your truck....." for more work.

I'm not too concerned here other than being undercut on maintenance accounts, that work is extremely competitive here. I tried to get the account of a client who I've done work for, but she states she's paying $40 for a lawn I priced at $60. Two college kids with machines who probably don't have insurance. I look for the premium work rather than the price shoppers, but even that has to be somewhat competitive.

[justgardens]

I agree. I tell people right off if they are looking for the cheapest it will not be me, but I will be the best! I only do maintenence as a necessary evil for clients I've put landscapes in for. I love doing the landscapes and designs. I could have enough business doing only those. Unfortunately these clients want me back every year to "take" care of it. I need just a maintence crew. I started one this year and it just didn't work out. The client wants to see me there and the quality goes down. It is just different if i'm not there. I haven't quite got to the place I want to be with crew leadership. I have great people but it just doesn't work out. Does anyone else feel like they need another you? I run so much I don't get to do what I love. I have decided they will just have to wait (I'm 8 weeks out now) and beleive it not people are willing to wait bless their hearts! If they can't, oh well, it won't hurt my feelings if they get someone else. I am even going to scale back my marketing . The Landscape Makeover we did this year with the local radio stations brought in more business than I can handle. It was basicly free for except the labor the day of but it was too effective! If there is such a thing. There is only one of me at this point and I can only do so much,even with a crack crew of 7.

[site]

A couple of years ago I fired two guys on the same day. They were goofing off whenever I turned my back. Both were relatively talented, but I still needed to keep an eye on their craftsmanship. Soon after their dismissal they decided to go into Business together. One got a settlement from a car accident and spent the money on a nice tractor and a one ton. I heard rumors last year about them getting fired by their customers for taking too long on jobs. Yesterday I got a look at a job they had just finished. I laughed when I saw it. Nobody was there to make them fix all their little mistakes each day, and all the little mistakes added up to one big mistake. I looked pretty bad. Sure, they are in the same industry and in the same general location, but they arent competitors...yet.

[Terry D]

Over the years I've had many workers leave to do their own gig.

On guy in particular, a cement laborer, who barely spoke english now has a companmy that does $15,000,000 / year and they're Union!!!

He got a divorce (part of living in America). but still has thrived.

Others have left me to work for the labor unions and their full retirement package.

Many are "on-call" if I need them for a weekend pour, or just side jobs. this is a win-win situation for both of us, but another big advantage for me is that I'm not obligated to be hunting down work for these guys to have a 40 hour week.

When something comes up I call them, otherwise I just work at a normal pace. Seeking work to feed the employees is like the tail wagging the dog, there is pressure to keep them busy or risk losing them to somebody else or watch them venture off on their own.

The biggest concern about losing an emmployee is did they swipe anything?

Did they do anything to hurt me (copy of bids, or profiit &loss statement etc.) that might come back as feeding them info that they can use for themselves, an undercut me.

Our biggest insurance policy against that is having a relationship (bond) with each client. That is a tough nut to crack.

[Pelican]

This saga has taken a disturbing turn.

I had two clients contact me recently and state they were visited by this employee who was fishing for work. He introduced himself as my former employee and reminded them he used to do their lawns.

I've been having management problems in the lawn care division of my business and the quality has admittedly suffered. My former worker reminded the clients of how good the job was done when he was there. I've made a change in management which will hopefully turn the quality issue around.

I'm going to confront him with this info and see what his reply is, then I expect the gloves may come off. I'm curious how many other jobs he's visited. I noticed this past week one of my accounts had had her beds cut and mulched by someone else in the same style that I taught him to do which has me wondering.

For some reason the thought of my size 14 steel toe landing just below waist high brings me pleasure!!

[Terry D]

NO USE IN GETTING TOSSED IN JAIL USING YOUR SIZE 14.

I'd set up a letter to each of your customers exlaining your transition and desire to fully implement improvements.

Thank them for being your client (yada -yada) and be on th elook-out for the 'Rats'.

[Stonehenge]

This is the same guy that wanted to borrow tools of yours after he left, right? Unbelievable!

Maybe you can call him and in as calm a voice as you can, tell him that since he's decided to make things ugly, you may do the same, including calling the Dept of Labor, the tax man, etc, just to check to make sure he's doing things by the book, including worker's comp, paying taxes, etc.

IMHO the last thing you ever want to do is give a competitor a reason to want to ram you into the ground. Looks like he's just done that.

[Dale Wiley]

Pelican:

What are you and your family having for dinner tonight ??

Mind if I walk in your house and yank yours and your kids plates from you and eat it right there ??

Thats what that dude is doing, because he is too damn lazy to get business the "normal" way. He is taking advantage of his former employer / employee relationship with you by trying to take customers and MONEY from you.

I have no problem with another legimate company soliciting my clients. They will never get them. I have major problems when wanna be's solicit my clients, or beat me in bids.

Contracting landscape with out license, insurance ???? I will turn you in to the state licensing board before lunch...

Spraying chemicals with out license ?? I will turn you in the Department of Ag right after lunch....

Hook up a sprinkler system to potable without licensing ?? I will have the Water Board and Plumbers on your ass before morning break...

I got beat in 2 bids by the same company. 20% lower price and the customers " had to go with it". I turned them in for no licensing, installing landscape and irrigation with out a license, hooking up backflows with out license and city permit, no workmens comp, no proof of liability insurance and on and on.... the fines will be close to
$ 2,000 PER JOB SITE...

Deal with your management issue like you did, and get proactive with your clients... personal visits, phone calls, monthly newsletter, acknowledege that a foremr employee is taking the unethical business step of contacting clients he served when he worked FOR YOU !!!!

Then hammer his ass with everything Jeff mentioned and do it....

Finally a phone call to the moron.. and I would start it of with " Listen MF, I am talking and your listening....since you made the decision to go after my clients, then I have to assume you have made a conscious decision to pursue my clients and act like a big business boy, I have to make sure we play level, and I WILL BE asking any regulatory agencies for your information. Go after my clients if you wish, but the gloves are off."

Protect your business, protect your clients, protect the income you and your family need.....

I can have him whacked for a couple packs of cigarettes and trvel expenses...

[site]

If the problem persists after you try what has been mentioned above maybe you could make a big show of soliciting his clients. What comes around goes around.

[dan deutekom]

The longer you are in business the more often this is going to happen. It is just a fact of life. Do everything you have to do to protect your assets. But always remember that most of us started much in this way because I don't think many started without any experience. Contacts and knowledge from former employers always seems to play a roll when someone starts on their own.

Also if a former employee manages to take an account with him you had better look very closely at how you are running your business because that client is not very loyal to you and that also means that client is ripe for the picking by any competitor.

[Pelican]

I agree with you dan, there are only a few of my accounts that I think he might have some success in taking and to tell the truth, they're the ones that I probably wouldn't be too unhappy about losing.

I've worked long and hard to establish myself as providing a service that exceeds my competitors and demanding quality from my employees. I'm comfortable with my clients' loyalty to me, but it burns my hind tail that a "friend" would try to take short cuts at my expense. I've turned away work that I know were accounts of my friends.

This kid lost his Dad at 15, he was also a friend of mine, and I've tried to offer guidance where I can without being intrusive but he's got an independent wild streak in him and thinks he's got the world by the short hairs. This is my repayment.

I plan to hook up with him over the weekend and discuss this, my next move will depend on his response. Believe me, putting him out of business has crossed my mind. Wouldn't be too hard to do, I know he's in hock up to his eyeballs.

I think I'm venting here but I appreciate everyone listening and offering their thoughts. Thanks!

[dan deutekom]

Originally posted by Pelican

This kid lost his Dad at 15, he was also a friend of mine, and I've tried to offer guidance where I can without being intrusive but he's got an independent wild streak in him and thinks he's got the world by the short hairs.

Oh to be young again

Sounds like the makings of an entrepreneur

[VoodooChile]

This thread intrigues me because I have a new hire who has asked some really odd questions during his first two days, like: "Where do you get your t-shirts?", "Where are most of your mow accounts?" and "You charge $25/hour for labor, right?"

Could just be curiosity, but...he used to work for a local landscape maintenance company, and has a friend/neighbor who does some scraping...

Makes me wonder...

How do you tell there's a spy in your midst? Any sure-fire signs?

And ethically, how much b.s. should I feed him?

[jwholden]

Voodoo,

Those are the types of questions that lead me to believe I've got a 'spy' in my midst, or are the type of questions that just annoy the heck out of me.

My newer fellah asked me if a certain dollar amount was good for the type of work we were doing this spring (Why would anyone ask that?). My reply was look at your costs and see where you are from there. If I hear too many questions like that I wonder how loyal that person is and why are they asking me those type questoins.

FACT: Anyone can get a lawnmower and make over $500 a week mowing lawns. If you take away insurance, quarterly taxes, management time, etc. that is good money. I personally think that guys with a full time job with benny's who mow 10 or 15 lawns on the side have a great concept and I often envy them...

[Stonehenge]

Voodoo - 'ethically'? I'm not sure ethics is part of this. IMHO that info is info they do not need to do their job, and does not affect their position in the company, so telling them 1+1 = bananas is no measure of ethics. Skip a pay period, renege on a pay increase or promotion, ok. Then your ethics can come into question.

For me, most times I tell them price info is non of their concern. Or I say 'It's enough that I can afford to pay you.' Though I do make mention of how much certain equipment costs...usually is immediately preceded by someone breaking or almost breaking that same tool.

As for spies....I guess my experience has been that most have thoughts of running their own show, and mining for info is part of their following that desire. Most times they don't start their own, or don't have the moxie to make a go of it.

My bigger concern is that they aren't focused on learning the things they need to learn to do the job in front of them.