[cutntrim]

I don't know how it is for the rest of you, but my closure rate traditionally sucks in the springtime. I'm up at the top of the pricing ladder (and quality ladder too if I might add) as far as maintenance contracts go, so I get underbid on a LOT of quotes early in the year. Just called up a company this morning to follow up on a quote and was told that they'd decided to go with a guy who bid half the amount I did! $3600/yr vs. $7200/yr. Frankly, I don't know how these guys can operate for that little, but I do know that it annoys the hell out of me.

I find that closure rates are much better mid-way through the season because the tire-kickers have already signed up with the lowest bidder they could find. I look forward to the day when maintenance companies in Ontario may require some sort of licensing (and snow removal companies too) in order to operate. In the meantime I continue to try and expand the installation side of my business, because although low-ballers certainly exist there too, at least you can also compete based upon the differences in your presentation and design.

[jwholden]

I find a similar scenario in my parts. There are a lot more homeowners searching for 'generic landscape planting' than quality or unique landscape planting early in the spring. Beeing a perfectionist, I suck at running from house to house and blowing out the work.

I used to think I had to lower my prices every spring to stay competitive. I would beat myself up later in the year when I got to what should have been better jobs that were bid way too low. I'm sticking to my pricing guns from the start this year along with NEVER doing ANY design work without receiving a check.

It seems to me that if someone isn't going to hire you they just aren't going to hire you. Whether you lower your prices, promise the world, give them a great start date whatever. If they do hire you for those reasons you are way too low and screwing yourself.

I'm sure these paragraphs aren't quite written as they should, but it is the 'attitude' I am taking this year. For better or worse...

[Nebraska]

I with both you guys. Cutntrim we do a lot of maintenance and I quite honestly hate the spring. It is when the lowballers are sleezing their way into everything. I have found that our best new business comes from May thru November.

As far as the installation end of the business I am trying to partner with an independant designer to handle the design process. The design aspect is my weakest link.

The designer that I've got something started with owns a small nursery. The plan is to refer the customers who have been pre-qualified up front as to their willingness to pay an initial consultation fee and to pay for a design, ranging from $150-500 or more, to this designer. We in turn buy our materials from her. Will see how this goes. I'm optimistic about it.

[Stonehenge]

It happens for landscape installs, too. This time of year I get loads of calls for lawn seedings. Many are for homes and homeowners that can't afford anything more than the bare minimum. For them I try to get away with not even having an appointment - I'll drive by several of them at once, measure and photo each, then put together a bid package and put it in the mail.

If they want more than just a lawn, we'll schedule a time to get together.

[cutntrim]

Nebraska - I know of a contractor here that has a similar arrangement with a nursery in our city. Seems to work out pretty well for him.

I never back down on price because I know it's gonna cost what it costs to perform the work - to the level of quality I provide. I'd only be hurting myself in the long run by lowering pricing because then I'd either be losing money, or would have to cut corners in order to be profitable at that price level. It does cause undo stress each spring (and each fall before the plowing season) though, since I carry quite a lot of overhead that I have to recover, no matter what. Joys of being in this line of work I guess...

[site]

Here's what bugs me- I bid like crazy for weeks on end and nobody calls back. Then all at once on the first warm sunny day everyone calls and wants to get started. If a customer wants priority in the spring they need to set the deal up in early fall the year before.

[Mac]

cutntrim,

i think it all comes down to guys either knowing their numbers or not. Im thankful that ive awakened and realized my numbers, and it appears that you have yours in a headlock too. Enjoy the spring, tomorrow starts the first day of maint for me

[DSL Lawncare]

I just got the" thank you for your bid", letter from a large church, and one new factory forgot that he switched to me last year and called the old guys back. I should have pushed him to sign the deal last fall. Oh well you live and learn.

[GLAN]

Our best time for residential contracts starts and round end of April.......We are already in maintenance by then.

Here's the thing.

Home owners have shopped and gotten what they thought was the best deal............Oh.......but they never showed to do the work...........Ah........got the cleanup done..........they never came back to start maintenance.

All during spring it is like that for us.......I have learned this long ago. I don't fret over the early spring.......I mind my own business, do the cleanups of what we have. Maintain our estimating cost numbers and eventualy we start signing contracts.

Have even had people that call me year after year for an estimate and they always go find the "Deal" well 4 or 5 years of that........they begin to realize that Not one of them out there will do the level of work we for what they are paying.

Quality pays

[agla]

I don't think it is any different from installs at all.

How do you beat lowballers on installs? You show them what they are getting for their money. You communicate the difference between what you do vs. what someone else might do. You back it up with a portfolio and a lot of verbal demonstration of knowledge. Who does that with maintenance?

It is marketing all over again. If you do not soundly demonstrate the value in paying you more to do maintenance than the next guy, then the customer has no reason to believe that he is comparing apples to apples. Why would he want to pay more if that is what he believes?

Convince the consumer that they will be getting more for that extra money. Have a maintenance portfolio. Show the attention to detail that your company does.

It is fine to kick lowballers and complain that they do not know their numbers. But, if they are running over a lawn and then hitting 40 more that day without doing much else, their numbers are low. They have a viable business with a very low overhead. However, they are not doing anything else. There is a market for that, a very big market. But, there is a market for higher maintenance, too.

That higher maintenance market is usually sought after by the lesser maintenance companies and that is where the conflict is. They simply can not deliver the higher standard because their crews have the run and gun mentality. They cause competitive pricing because they enter the mix feeling like they do not have to do much more than mow and go and price that way.

That mid level maintenance is the toughest market because of the presence of those types of companies driving the price down and then forcing the better companies to reduce services to stay competitive. Those better companies now carry a heavier overhead but can not take in enough money to be as profitable as the run and gun guys or those that stick only in the higher end.

The highest end is only there if the workers are skilled and knowledgable and there is a demand for that work. You can't use the same people in high end one day and mid level the next because they will kill you in overhead at one place or drain you in quality at the other.

I believe that the most profit is at the ends. Run and gun or refined gardening. The middle is the worst.

BUT, there is a market for low end and although it is frustrating if you are in the middle it is a good viable business niche that has a customer base that is huge. There is no shame in it.

[GLAN]

agla

Nice response and you realy have a keen insight...

What I see is that residential owners don't see that there are 3 levels as you describe.

I never looked at it that way either.

Where I am........I find the homeowner knows of only 2...cut and run......the full service.

Prices?.........well that runs the full gountlet.

Myself.....we provide full service only.....High quality as standard


You ask justifying a price.......well.

Best I can answer is, regarding maintenance it is a visible service. Crew is there on a weekly basis. I charge what I need to, to provide the quality level we maintain. How can a low baller provide that level of service.

People see the difference.........it is not just about getting the grass cut.

Most home owners want the best.....just don't want to pay for it. So they keep thinking the next low baller can give them what they want.....

There comes a time when the "light bulb" flashes above their head and they then realize.....why have they been playing around with low ballers?

[Nebraska]

The problem that exists is finding them just when that light bulb only needs that last twist.

[GLAN]

Originally posted by Nebraska
The problem that exists is finding them just when that light bulb only needs that last twist.

yeah well.....it takes time.......the call will eventualy come.


I been in this so long.....I have a nice core business, I can wait it out for some to get tired of dealing with know nothing want to be LCO's


I think that is the key.

Longevity..............with that comes recognition, stability and reputation...This doesn't mean you are going to do every home in town. What it does mean......you won't have to fight as much getting the price you want.

[agla]

Landscapers do not see the three levels either. They all see that they do high end with very little exception. Low end starts somewhere below them and everything above them is people over complicating their work. Most of us use ourselves as the standard to measure against. I did that, too.

The difference for me now is that I have had the good fortune to make a good living working for several companies that I did not own. My perspective is from being inside, but seeing from the outside looking in. High end maintenance is only delivered by a very small percentage of companies from my perspective. Yours may be one of them, I don't know.

What I do know is that if you ask a random sampling of 100 landscapers if they are high end, low end, or in the middle, you won't find one low baller, a high percentage of high rollers, and several that will qualify their answer to something like "high middle".

[jwholden]

I'm going with the high middle category for myself.

Most of my work is in suburbia around McMansions. If you drive down towards westport or Greenwich from here you can quickly feel very, very small.

If you are going to stick to lawns you need to stick to lawns - get an efficient rig and don't add many services to stick with efficiency. Mow, Spring Clean up, Fall Clean up, Hedge trimming, aeration, thatching and a few minor additions to that list. The bigger companies diversify into the 'cutting crew', landscaping crew, and fertilization crew.

By sticking with installs the last two years my crews are getting more efficient, when I'm around. They can see the job and know what comes next without me barking at them all day. I know if I left them on a job by themselves they could complete a foundation planting by themselves, it just wouldn't look exactly the same as my vision.

I do some hardscape work, but it is a loss leader for me. I know I would be better subbing it out because I have yet to come close to the efficiencies of other guys on the site. However, a subs quality can be lacking and I honestly do enjoy that type of work.

My .02.