[Bill Schwab]

Had a situation last week where one of our guys was forced to drive a truck into a light pole. Some charming and delightfull woman driving a load of kids from a daycare pulled right out in front of him and put on her brakes to talk to someone, stopping right in the middle of the street. The brakes on the truck had also failed, the master cylinder exploded, which was weird because I had just gotten out of that truck and told the driver to go home, he was not feeling well.. Nothing wrong at that time!

Fortunately, he was not going fast, and, no injuries occurred. The truck, however, different story. We have a 1/4" thick "C" Channel bumper that I made, and it had a 12" V in the center. Radiator, passenger side fender, hood, core support trashed.

Since we only carry liability on this vehicle (it did not make economic sense for full coverage) we are repairing the damage ourselves. So, headed off to the bone yard, got a front clip, removed all the bad metal, bolted it on, aligned the fender/hood, and getting ready to sand it down and paint this afternoon. Cost for parts, $500.00 plus small odds and ends......

The truck will run and work Monday and was purchased as a spare. Years ago, I was going to H/S and a girlfreinds dad was one of the best body and fender men in the business and he showed me how to do body work on a '67 Camaro and old Jeep CJ3A with a 327 Chevy that I had. Never thought I would be needing to use this talent again, but sure came in handy.

Now the issue of what to do with the driver...I think on one hand he did a great job putting the truck where he did and not getting any one hurt. On the other, he paniced at the last minute, as he did not use the emergency brake, or throw the truck into reverse, even though it would have wasted the tranny is far better than hitting anything... I think we are going to take some defensive driving classes as a company, at the Cajon Speedway. Driving a stock car is the ultimate challenge in teaching drivers to use their heads in short and fast situations.

What would any of you guys do in this situation?

[dan deutekom]

I think your driver shouldn't be punished in any way. It is great to be an armchair quarterback after the fact but he managed to avoid a catastrophic collision in a truck that wasn"t safe to drive! In my opinion that truck of yours sounds like an old wreck. I get this opinion by the fact that you don't carry collision insurance on it because quote "(it did not make economic sense for full coverage)" and also because quote "The brakes on the truck had also failed, the master cylinder exploded". When a master cylinder has a total failure there usually are preceding indications that it is in poor shape. A truck in our jurisdiction would be pulled off of the road and the owners heavily fined by the Ministry of Transport if it were in this condition. Also the Ministry of transport would be inspecting the truck and laying charges after investigating this accident.

I don't mean to sound tough but I have to call it the way I see it.

[diginahole]

I'm with Dan. There shouldn't be any repercussions for the driver here. I am all for the defensive driver training. As always, prevention is better than cure, and by maintaining due diligence, companies can greatly reduce their chances of injury and property damage. I would be more inclined to seek out a course geared toward driving commercial vehicles. There are several companies offering this training in my area. Either way, kudos to you for making such training available to your staff.

[Will Pacala]

Same here I think that then driver did what was at the time right and didn't hurt anyone. I do kind of like the idea of taking some of those lessons at the track. They should help you get out of that panic mode that he was in when it all happened. Another thing was the lady that stopped and made the driver go off the road charged or what did she say?

[jwholden]

Bill, was your driver following the car or did the car pull out from a side street? Reread your post and it sound like she pulled out from a side street.

Around me any accident where a car behind hits a car in front the driver behind is given a ticket for not allowing adequate following distance. However, if the car pulled out of a side street it cannot be your drivers fault.

I wouldn't be hard on him either, he wasn't doped up, I assume if he was driving he's a trusted employee, he wasn't goofing off.

As I grow 'older' I am amazed at how poorly people drive and what a rush everyone is in. People have no clue that their actions have consequences on other drivers. I wish that we could all just take a deep breath before getting behind the wheel of a car.

[Bill Schwab]

Ok, a few things here....

First, Dan, we have one of the best maintained fleets in our industry, I see to that. And, in all fairness, I have had brand new trucks with master cylinder failures, the GM brakes from years of 88 through 99 were absoultely the biggest garbage placed in any vehicle, with thousands of documented failures...I am not an anti lock brake fan at all...If they were so great we would run them in race cars....
And, as far as insurance goes...We recover the cost of our vehicles over a said amount of time. With our plan, there is no reason for keeping full coverage on any vehicle over 6 years old, or has been fully recovered in cost and depreciated in deductions.
This vehicle happened to be a '91 SuperDuty, with 60,000 original miles. It would bring maybe 10K on the open market, but, you know as well as I do that an insurance company would be hard pressed to give you 5K if it was totaled, that is just what they are, cheats......
It makes no sense to pay $1,500.00 more per year on this unit for full coverage with the chance this truck may be totaled when your odds are better keeping liability, and if it totals, so what, the cost was recovered by usage....

Anyhow, the accident...This driver proceeded 1/2 mile further than he had to as he realized the truck lost it's brakes far back in the road. So, he had a 1/2 mile to:
A), use the emergency brake,
B) rub tires on the B-6-12 curbing along the road,
C) throw the tranny in reverse,
Even if he trashed it, that would still be better than a wreck, NO? When the lady pulled out in front of him, she pulled out about 100 feet in front of him and stopped cold to BS with someone on the sidewalk. If he had used his E brake, or the other methods I mentioned, and stopped long before this area came into view of the truck, this would not be an issue...I commend him on not hitting anyone or getting hurt himself, however, I think defensive emergency driving instruction would have kept the do-do out of his pants long enough so he could have thought clearly and stoped the truck.

It is all back together, painted and running now, with the exception of the new master cylinder, Napa sold me the wrong one, so, when we bleed out the brakes, we will be making money again with this truck. I am going to the Peterbuilt dealer next week and putting a downstroke on a new truck, with a roll off dump, 425HP Cat and 13 speed fuller tranny... In the mean time, this super duty is one heck of a truck!

[Stonehenge]

The driving course might be a great idea - I never investigated it, but thought I had heard you'd get a break on insurance premiums if they went through a class. Though I'm not sure stock car racing would count.

As for the driver, not knowing any of the circumstances, or what the terrain in the location was like, I'd say no discipline would be warranted. I acidentally put the forks of a tractor through the side of the shop at a former employers, trying to stack up skids. When the boss started yelling, I yelled right back, that if he had gotten the brakes fixed any time in the last 3 months, it wouldn't have happened. (this thing had no brakes at all for an entire season, and you had to stop by throwing it in reverse)

[Nebraska]

I'm with everyone regarding no discipline of the driver. I do agree with the defensive driving school.

The brake issue and those children in the van was a huge liability issue for your business that your driver managed to avoid 'cracking' wide open. I wonder how any jury in California would have looked upon that?????

[Will Pacala]

Same here. How was the driver both physically and mentally after the accident??

[dan deutekom]

Bill

Now that I hear your driver drove this thing for a 1/2 mile without brakes I have to wonder where his head is at. If you realize you have no brakes you get the truck stopped and have it towed in. Your first post made it sound like the brakes went when he was trying to do his emergency stop. Also the way your post sounded to me, it was like this truck was a 1968 chevy with13 colours of primer and bailing twine holding it together. Probably because up here when a truck isn't worth carrying collision on it ain't worth driving.

Sorry

[Will Pacala]

What kind of truck was it again? Any jake brake?? What was it hauling in both the bed and the trailer?? If it was too heavy that may contribute to the brake failure and such.

[Nebraska]

I'm guilty of not reading carefully!!! An entire 1/2 mile?????? If so there exists a lack of common sense.

[Will Pacala]

Yeah really. I would have pulled over and called for a tow truck. I think that we should teach the employees that it's ok to call the boss to tell him that something has gone wrong and that if it was truly an accident that we won't get mad at them.

[Bill Schwab]

Ok herezzzz the deeeeal (as my man Ross Perot would say) I got out of the truck after running a load to the dump, we were a guy short so I had to fill in....The brakes were fine, and I had them scheduled for back pads this Saturday. My leader, Pablo, calls on the nextel and tells me he is feeling crummy...Flu going around out her, just had to make my oldest daughter a smoothie cause she has it...

Anywho, I bring in the Super duty, empty, and we load 3/4 of a left over pallet of brick on to return. Pablo takes off, I tell him to hit the hay...Now you got to know, this guy I would trust with my life, he is so conciencious you can't imagine...

He heads in and about a half hour later there is this panic call, he can barley tell me where the truck is at and the San diego Sherriff gets on and tels me...

So, I get there, then after follow the path he took until the truck rested upon the pole. There is litterally a half mile between the point where he had to turn for our shop, thus hitting the hooks, and where the accident occurred. I am envisioning him loosing his bottom end panicking, trying to stop this truck...I see he was heading up hill at the point where the lady pulled out...His thoughts I am sure were to use gravity to stop.... I suppose a panicked person would think like this... Our family had a marina when I was a kid, we have played with hi speed stuff since I was 6, and am 46 now....
The guy is a great worker, uses his head on the job, and I guess my initial thought here was to post seeing what others may thinki about investing time and money in further training on him...I think had he not panicked, the truck would simply be without brakes and not hit anything. P:art of me is very happy he did what he did...He missed getting hurt...The other part is asking what the hell was he thinking...I have always been taught that in dire straights and being abkle to stop, even if you jam it into reverse and trash a tranny it is better than an accident...

[Bill Schwab]

Will:

This truck is a '91 Ford super Duty, with a 7,3 naturally aspirated diesel, 4 wheel disc brakes, 60K on the odometer.

The truck I am ordering is going top have a Jake brake, matter of fact, any diesel we own is going to have exhaust brakes, the hills are murder out here....