[Boilerscapers]

we are about to begin two projects that will total approximately 8000sf of 2" thick, natural cleft pattern bluestone (dry lay). we know that each piece will need to be 'squared-up' and that the thickness of the stone will vary up to 1/2" from piece to piece. our questions are:

1. what type of stone saw would anyone recommend that would be efficient and durable for not only these two projects but serve us well in the future?

2. I've had suggestions on stone dust, a fine ag-lime and coarse sand as leveling agents. Any thoughts on this? We'll want to use a polymeric sand over the top and want to be sure whatever we use as bedding is compatible

3. any good tools for handling the stone? i've seen some suction cups and other vaccuum devices, but haven't pulled the trigger yet on a purchase. our biggest pieces will be 36x36....

[johnkeegan]

They're your first two bluestone projects and they're going to be a total of eight thousand square feet?

That's what I call diving right in.

You might as well buy a good 14" cutoff saw and some good diamond blades...and good stone hammers (rubber mallet too) and some really nice knee pads.

Do your base prep correctly too. Important if you're in zone 5.

[agla]

On my screen there are two ads showing Stihl cut off saws just below the posts. Partner seems to be a very popular brand as well.

I had the same reaction to 8,000 square feet for the first job

[VoodooChile]

Let's see. 8000 s.f./9 s.f. maximum = 888 pieces of bluestone minimum. Figuring a minimum of 2 cuts per piece to sqaure, that's 1766 cuts minimum. And then you've got to set each piece.

Yikes!

For 2-3" pieces a 12" cut-off saw will work better: less weight to lug around for all those cuts. I've used both sand and fines for 15 years, and we pretty much always use sand now. Never heard of compatibility issues between polysand and base. Pavetech has all kinds of slick stone handling tools.

Zone 5 huh? You better get cracking!

[dan deutekom]

I will disagree with Voodoo on the saw. Go 14". The difference in weight is negligible and you can always put a 12" blade on a 14" saw but not a 14" blade on a 12. Also there isn't much of a price difference between 14 and 12 inch saws because they use the same engines and bodies. Only the blade guard is different size in most cases.

You better get started because the season is quickly coming to an end.

[agla]

..... anybody know what he means by "each piece has to be squared up"? Around here it is squared up and sized to have a certain sized joint (5/8", I think).

[dan deutekom]

Almost all of the bluestone that I have laid has had at least one cut that wasn't 90 degrees or there was a variation of 1/4 to 1/2 inch in dimensions that messed up the laying pattern.

[VoodooChile]

I've got both a 14" and a 12" TS400. I bring both to every job, but only ever use the 14" for cutting wall stone and as a backup (they do take a dive periodically). At the end of the day, I sure notice the difference in weight and torque, unless I'm lucky enough to have a cut-man.

You could always buy both. For a job this size, I hope some money was included in the bid for equipment and blades, cause if I understand what you mean by square up the stone, you're gonna need it.

[dan deutekom]

I have a TS400 and when I bought it I had a choice between both sizes. I never noticed the differences in weight. I do notice the difference between using the 14 inch or 12" blade. The 12 inch blade is easier to move around when working because there is less gyroscopic force when at speed. I would use the larger blade for cutting bluestone because the blade will run cooler, cut straighter, faster and last longer because of the extra size. I think this is one of those personal choice type things.

[VoodooChile]

We wet cut whenever possible. Not sure why a larger blade would cut cooler...more blade surface area for the same area of cut?

I notice the difference in torque, your gyroscopic force, at the end of the day, because you fire up the saw, lift it, and then bring it to the stone, typically changing the plane of the blade's angular momentum, which requires more force for the 14" blade's larger surface.

3.14*[(7" X 7")-(6" X 6")] = 40.8 s.i. difference in surface area between a 14" and 12" saw. 40.8 s.i. / 3.14 (6" X 6") s.i. = 36.1 % more blade to move for that extra 2" of cutting depth. My 40+ year old body feels that 36% extra blade weight for sure....at least until its time for a High Life or 2.

But to each his own.

[johnkeegan]

I just bought a new TS 400. What a difference from the old one. Lighter, yet more powerful and with suspension system to absort the shock...Nice.

[dan deutekom]

When you do the math that is a lot more blade to get only 1" more of cutting depth (14/2)-(12/2)=1

Imagine running a TS800 with a 16" blade all day. That would require at the end of the day.

[VoodooChile]

Whoops! 1" extra cutting depth...

[matt in maine]

I'm late to this but here's my $.02-

A 14 " saw is more versatile If I were to have only one saw.

Be careful in squaring up your bluestone. We always say that once you start making a few pieces smaller, you're going to have to cut them all. You don't want to have to cut them all.

We lay them as tight as we can without any cutting and then go back with a floor chisel and slide them around to adjust the joints to get them as even as possible. there are always a few with odd angle cuts and we just zip them in place to make the joints look better as a cosmetic shallow cut. In most cases the irregularities in joint spaces add to the beauty of the natural stone and random pattern. (your job may spec a non random pattern and uniform joint spacing, for which you would charge accordingly)

In random pattern I always draw the field on graph paper so I know what piece is going in next and how many of each I will need. It takes a little time but saves a lot.

In random pattern the rules are...
No joint running longer than 6 ft.
No identical pieces laid next to each other as an "identical twin"
No four corners!
no sliver cuts on the edge or any cut less than 1 square foot in size.
No L-shaped pieces if possible, they almost always break.

Anybody else have any random bs rules?