Cab Over, Isuzu/Volvo?, Dump trailer? Single axle dump truck-what to buy
I have been doing some thinking about Cab Overs. I now run a 1994 Ford 350 Diesel Turbo Dully with 2 extra leaf springs. I mainly do dry stack stone and Larger tree plantings. Problem is 1) I want a Dump, 2) I need more power to get up hills. Keeping in mind this is my second biz on Mondays. When I'm not running my Motorcycle Business throw out the week, Sundays work on the our horse farm.
So I have started with with the Dump Trailer idea- then realized that my truck has no Balls to bull a 4,000 pound trailer with a New Holland 665 in the back. But love the Cheap insurance $00.00
So then I figured I'd look into a Full Size single axel, ie International w/a dt466, Ford f750, GMC Top Kicks class 6 26,000 gvw(under CDL). Once I started looking I realized most of the trucks have pushed snow and ave more salt damage then I would hope for. So on to Truck trader, Craigs list, Ebay, Truck paper and now Oodle.A full size dump truck like this sure seems like it would do the job just well. But Parking, small jobs, fuel cost, operational cost, insurance and just darn getting any thing in and out of the bed made me wonder is this the right choose. Bus at least is seems like it would make up for it in the pulling power.
So my buddy has always talked about the Cab overs- make sense to me- easy to get in out of small areas, Just as nice to unload equipment as a dump trailer, Killer on MPG. But I too wonder how great they are to pull load plus move a skid steer- so those who have them- what is slow ? going up a hill- bad enough to have to put the hazards on or just a bit slower then a full dump? I just can't keeping doing 25-30 on big hills with my Ford-gets old with a string of traffic behind you.
Any one running the Volvo FE- Pro's Cons over the Isuzu- I'm look at both the 1992 Volvo FE (CDL) 27000GVW has 300,000 k asking $15 and the 2000 Isuzu 12 bed 135,000 miles 15k.w/tool box all the way throw along with side mount tool box. The Volvo seems to be fitted better, The Isuzu seems to be like a AM radio station.-Or Heck maybe I'll just wait till the next truck auction and pick up a Top Kick with rust and just call it a day for less then $4000?
What do the Pro's say?
__________________
Mark J.
Specializing in Dry Stack Stone,
Certified
Level 1 Dry Stone Mason, USA DSC-Dry Stone Conservancy & DSWA-British Dry Stone Walling Association
First of all, I think at this stage of the game I would be thinking about fuel economy over anything else. Who the hek cares if you have to go 35mph up a hill. The isuzu diesel will get great mileage. At what will be $5 a gallon diesel by the middle of summer, I would give serious consideration to this. You are running a part time business, meaning you don't just go and fininsh a job in a day. You may go back 3-4 times and work shorter periods of time. Think about what EACH trip costs you at $5 a gallon.
The big question is do you REALLY need a big truck like the cdl class vehicles. Think about the fuel economy on driving it. Your looking at 6-9 mpg. Can you economically price jobs on a part time business to cover the costs?
Also, look very carefully at the insurance. You will have to register the big truck commercially (at least in my area). Also, in my state, if the truck is a dump, you have to have commercial insurance. You don't if you have a dump trailer or a pick-up dump insert. Also, look at the costs of registration. Finally, look into the maintenance costs. 6 tires on a dually pickup can be had for around $600 -$700 bucks. On the big trucks, your looking at $1200 and up.
Before you do anything, sit down and do the number game. Think about what happens when you are driving a big truck to a job. The numbers may make the decision obvious.
If this were a full time business, I would approach it differently. But as a part timer, you need to really think about the costs associated with such a purchase.
I do mainly hardscape work, and have been running a cab over isuzu gas model. I may overload it sometimes, but bottom line is, it gets the job done. Great truck built very well. I pull a trailer/skidsteer combo that weighs over 12k lbs, and yah, it may struggle on some hills, but it gets there. I don't get why everyone is so concerned about getting somewhere fast. I rather get there cheaply. So what if you have 500 million horsepower and can speed up hills. I'll get there 5 minutes after you.
I've had great luck with the Isuzus in the 17.5K range. And the ones in the 26K range have much beefier engines, if you spec them out. Granted we go a little slower sometimes but I'll take the dependability and the lower MPG and just get there 5 minutes later.
And remember when spec-ing out a truck subtract the Unlaiden weight (empty truck)from the GVW, that will give you the true idea on how much weight you can carry each trip. The cabovers weigh alot less than a standard truck, thus allowing you to carry more weight each trip.
Great points guys. I've run more numbers then you could imagine. I think my wife is ready to buy just about any thing for me just to shut me up. Since she is the voice of reason. I'd be rich if I lessoned to her. The Cab over is a new one for my line of work makes the most sense.
Ya I know about tires having the Ford. I have also looked into the insurance. Which only runs around $1000-$1400 year. My Ford 350 now is around $800. So far I like every thing about the Cab overs. I have another fellow who has a bit bigger truck for sale the Volvo FE 6 cylinder 200+ Hp turbo,26000 gvw w/air brakes and some fancy bed that dumps every which way. Only things is has a batch of miles 330,000 but seems like the best of both worlds. It's former life was a box truck. He shortened it and put the italian mason bed on it. So I still need to look at it.
And O yes been thinking Green. Plan on converting my Ford to Vegi Oil some time this summer. So I'm all about smarter machines after all I sell Motorscooter all day long to all the folks who are tired of high Gas. Little do they know we have all been paying Higher prices for some time. But Yes I keep tools on the job and head back if needed on two wheels. The trick is having it all planned out ahead of time. Keeps me wasting trips with big equipment. Stacking stone is only a art which does not require any thing other then some basics. Last year wasted to much time shoveling out of the back of the Ford. Time for the Dump.
Plus having a 22 arch horse farm- I can't tell you how great it would be to be able to move and dump stuff such as saw dust (for the horse stalls.) I forgot about my stone piles I've been collecting. That's when you know you have a problem, when you start picking up stones along the road. Then you have to admit you have issues. Having said that one could never have to big a truck. Just to small skid loader to move them. Next it will be time for a WILLMAR WRANGLER. But first the Dump.
Thank you again for all the extra feed back. 80% of the features and benefits lead me to the Cab overs for my line of work.
__________________
Mark J.
Specializing in Dry Stack Stone,
Certified
Level 1 Dry Stone Mason, USA DSC-Dry Stone Conservancy & DSWA-British Dry Stone Walling Association
Used cabover dumps are pretty hard to find. Box trucks are everywhere. Pretty easy to find a box truck with low miles for somewhere around 11k, rip the box off and have a dump bed put on.The snag I've run into is getting the whole deal financed- "you wanna do what?"
I'll give you some reasons for getting the dump trailer. I have CDL Dumptruck and am looking at the cabovers for the next addition.
Dump trailer purchase and maintenance costs are just so cheap it has to be considered. Run the numbers for each option - big truck, little truck, dump trailer and trailer with newer pickup. Spread the purchase price over the estimated life and look at that as your initial cost per year. Then add estimated maintenance and operating costs for each year. Don't get caught up on fuel yet.. look at maintenance, registration, insurance, taxes etc.
The dump trailer is versatile. It can haul machines, can be loaded and unloaded with pallets, can be left at the site overnight if materials are not all installed, can be used for cleaning up the site and dump runs.
My dumptruck has no way to carry tools. I'm sure if you got a cabover or smaller truck you would set up a tool box and carriers but more money to do so.
Truck breakdowns.. consider turnaround time on commercial truck vs. your existing truck.
It could be worth considering especially if you are due for a newer pickup.
Here is a image of our Switch-n-Go on a 2001 Isuzu FRR. I've been very happy with the cabover. Great fuel economy, works well for towing and turns on a dime.
I'm also in the market for a newer dump. I currently plow in the winter. Do any of you plow with your cab over dumps. What types of set-ups do you use? how do they compare to a traditional 1 ton dump or F-550?
I like the 4X4-
I got lucky and found a 1993 Volvo FE cab over 6 speed volvo turbo engine, full air brakes, 2 wheel not the best in wet or off roading. The truck was a box truck converted to a Dump. WITH A 3 WAY DUMP Bed (Romanazzi bed) Italian made, Mason body 18 inch sides 13 foot bed. Great for side loading with the skid loader. Since I LOVE STONE. So the original gvw was 36,000 had it classified at 26,000 to stay under CDL. But I just picked up some stone and found out the truck was 14,000 so I'm pushing it if I get 6 tons. So looks like I'll study up for the CDL and have the class changed. The truck has plenty of Balls hauling. Not like alot most of the Isuzu's. But hey if I didn't get so lucky with this 3 way dump. I'd buy a Isuzu- lack of power up hills or not. There are more plus's then negatives. Compared to any thing else out there. Plus they sure do hold there value compared to any thing else on the market. Lord knows I did a lot of looking. I like yours alot. Switch and Go. Makes so much sense. Surprised I didn't think of that - we all say.
Commercial insurance running about $1200 full coverage. Happy about that. My F 350 dully is running $800. So well worth it.
I'll work on getting as Movie up. of the side dump.
__________________
Mark J.
Specializing in Dry Stack Stone,
Certified
Level 1 Dry Stone Mason, USA DSC-Dry Stone Conservancy & DSWA-British Dry Stone Walling Association
I like the 4X4-
I got lucky and found a 1993 Volvo FE cab over 6 speed volvo turbo engine, full air brakes, 2 wheel not the best in wet or off roading. The truck was a box truck converted to a Dump. WITH A 3 WAY DUMP Bed (Romanazzi bed) Italian made, Mason body 18 inch sides 13 foot bed. Great for side loading with the skid loader. Since I LOVE STONE. So the original gvw was 36,000 had it classified at 26,000 to stay under CDL. But I just picked up some stone and found out the truck was 14,000 so I'm pushing it if I get 6 tons. So looks like I'll study up for the CDL and have the class changed. The truck has plenty of Balls hauling. Not like alot most of the Isuzu's. But hey if I didn't get so lucky with this 3 way dump. I'd buy a Isuzu- lack of power up hills or not. There are more plus's then negatives. Compared to any thing else out there. Plus they sure do hold there value compared to any thing else on the market. Lord knows I did a lot of looking. I like yours alot. Switch and Go. Makes so much sense. Surprised I didn't think of that - we all say
Commercial insurance running about $1200 full coverage. Happy about that. My F 350 dully is running $800. So well worth it.
I'll work on getting as Movie up. of the side dump.
Well, I recently struggled with the exact same decision. I too am just a part timer and in the end I purchased a 14K dump trailer. I haul a mini excavator around and so will always need a trailer.
Yes in the perfect world I would probably get a cab over, however I'm just starting out and in effect, boot strapping myself and my business. I figured that even if I get a cab over, I will still need a regular truck for daily chores, driving, family, etc and so with a dump trailer I can be setup for a minimal total investment.
I still drool at all the sweet cab overs that I see and hope to one day get one. Until then I'll make do with my extra-cab, 4x4, F350 Dually and dump trailer. Actually, if all goes well, I hope to buy a Spyder Excavator in the next couple of years and so the cab over idea may have to be swapped for something bigger to haul it around.
A couple of years ago we ended up purchasing an International 4700 dump when we were in the same boat. The truck we bought has the International 7.3 diesel, its an auto trans and has juice brakes, great truck and any employee can drive it with a std lic.
We have a 97 NPR 400 Tipper that we picked up from our Botanical Gardens with only 50K miles on it when it was 8 years old. That truck has done another 50k miles since. It has been a blessing. The forward visibility when reversing up driveways and around backyards is a really big help. The fuel is consistently around 18 mpg, and we usually roll at 20,000 with the mini-ex in the back and the tools trailer behind. Since I bought it I have put on a new set of drive tyres and water pump for $77.00.
Before 2002 these trucks were not big on power thats for sure. We often say we should put some blinkers on so she can't see the hills coming Lol. Its Ok for us because its a town truck and a lot of time its running around with a couple of tonnes of masons sand or green waste in the back which it goes fine.
I recently test drove an FRR 500 factory Tipper with the AMT transmission. That was a very nice piece of gear. The AMT model has 175 Hp but you can spec the manual with 205 Hp. Cruise Control, ABS, Hill Start, Air Bags, CD Stacker, Central Locking, Street Navigator etc and the other bells and whistles. At around 6' 1" I actually found this truck easier to get in and out of than something like an F250. The other truck I looked at was a Hino. It seemed every bit as good truck as the ISUZU but I just couldn't find a place for my size 13 Hooves..Lol...they are still modelled on small Japanese man!.
