[Murphy Bros.]

Hello everyone,

My brother and I are wanting to purchase a new mini track loader before years end. We would like your input, and are wondering if any of you have had any experience with either of these machines?

1. Vermeer S600TX

2. Ditch Witch SK650


Audie
MURPHY BROS. LANDSCAPES

[nylan]

I have a Dingo, purchased 4 years ago. Its a great machine and I would buy again. My machine has had a few problems, motor went out, had to replace a cylinder. Mine is a 222 ride on. Biggest complaint is Toro came in and set up shop, sold about 100 of these and then set up service center in a town 90 miles away. Not really helpful when you need a small part to get back up and running or rent an attchmnt for a day. I use the ditch witch trencher attchmnt on mine. The one I bought with the Dingo was worn out in 2.5 years. The Ditch Witch attchmnt is built a lot better. (Dingo invented the mini and does it best, Ditch Witch is the worlds leader in trenchers, Hence I married the two.)

I personally dont like the controls on the Sk 650. When going over rough terrain they seem unsure.

The vermeer seems to be a beast. Very narrow base to get in tight spots and can lift more than most.

I would call the dealer and tell them you want to demo them for a day and that will help you decide. Make sure you lift something close to the specd weight because there seems to be some exaggerating going on with some dealers. If there is not a local, established, stable service center, NO SALE. Don't buy one that doesn't have a platform to stand on, when walking behind it you have to worry about where your walking and your load, makes it unsafe for operator and the load.

Check out the link below for more info.



http://www.igin.com/Landscaping/lans...teerChart.html

[nylan]

If cost is a major concern, there are a lot of used ones around with low hours. Small companies were talked into buying them and then realized they didn't have enough work to keep them busy or couldn't afford them. Most are in great shape and still under warranty. I bought my first one new. It was stolen after 1 1/2 years and I bought a used one out of Georgia with 54 hours on it for $ 8500.00 , Just something to think about.

Make sure you only buy the attchmnts you need all the time and rent the rest. I bought a tiller attchmnt 4 years ago and have used it less than ten times.

[Murphy Bros.]

Nylan,

Thanks for the information. We have rented the walk behind dingo track machine a few times and also the bobcat mt52 with the stand on platform, which sucks because of the crazy wheel that gets hung up in every rut.
The dingo and the bobcat seemed underpowered especially when trenching. I also noticed the bobcat did not like backing up and turning while lowering the arms, it taxed the hydraulic system too much and kept wanting to stall out. And like you said I would rather ride on than walk behind the dingo.
Price is not at the top of our list, quality, capability and parts/service is. ditch witch and vermeer are not too far away (35-40 min.) and I see their pickup trucks running around the area here at least once a week.


Audie
MURPHY BROS. LANDSCAPES

[phototropic1]

Originally posted by nylan
Don't buy one that doesn't have a platform to stand on, when walking behind it you have to worry about where your walking and your load, makes it unsafe for operator and the load.

Check out the link below for more info.



http://www.igin.com/Landscaping/lans...teerChart.html

I personally prefer the walk-behinds! I would suggest you try both styles in a real world type situation if you can before you buy. I find that the ride on's are like riding a mechanical bull. And the controls aren't as simple. They may have changed them since I tried the ride on, but I found it very difficult to operate the bucket and tracks at the same time with the ride-on controls. The walk behind 'seems' much more natural to a guy who has operated lots of front-end loaders. With a machine as light as a Dingo (around 2200 lbs or so) you are bound to get thrashed around a lot (imagine banging the crap out of your knee on the machine). I find the walk behinds easier to maintain control with. I might be in the minority here, I don't know. I run a 425TX and am not sorry one bit for that decision.

[nylan]

Never been banged or thrashed! You are actually part of the machine. When it goes up you go up, when it goes down you go down. Your hands never leave the control panel. On a walk behind the machine and the control panel are moving up and down and you are trying to maintain constant pressure and control of a moving control panel. On a track machine you have a center of balance and when you are walking behind it and go over a ridge, bump etc. the machine stays level until it passes the center of balance then the front end drops to follow the terrain and the rear end goes up quickly putting counter pressure on your hand that is controlling the machine, causing you to "not have proper control" On a walk behind you can not go as fast as the machine is rated because you are worrying about where you are stepping, looking out for trip hazards.

A lot of the attchmnts are meant to be used going in reverse. Like when using the leveler to grade out a yard to get ready for sod, it is used going in reverse. This is a problem on a walk behind because you are walking back wards and have to go slower so you can watch where you are stepping. That means the speed you paid for is unusable. When using a tiller or power rake you are walking back wards watching where you are stepping when you should be focused on the attchmnt and that sprinkler head that is 4 inch's away, or that new tree that you are about to hit. When you are scooping up dirt with bucket you need good momentum, when digging out dirt and sod you need good momentum. You cant get that from a walk behind. When using your power broom to sweep dry powdery snow off of a walkway do you want to be walking and slipping on the patchy ice underneath or do you want to be " part of the machine "?

The walk behind will tire you out, twist your ankles and robs you of the speed you paid for.

On the dingo there is a flow diverter for the hydraulics that sends more power to the attchmnt and less to the drive wheels. When you learn how to use this lever you have plenty of power for trenching, tilling etc. I have used mine to trench through 6 inch asphalt. I live in Ok. where most of our ground is solid red clay and have no problem trenching.

My dingo runs an average of 6 hours daily for 4 years. I don't do anything buy hand if I can figure out a way to use the machine. Dig valve box's, pull out fence post, carry a strap of brick, raise the trailer to change a tire, push over small trees, dig my foundation for my shop, dig the sweet potatoes out of the garden, move a storage building, whatever and at the end of the day I still have the energy to go home and play with my kids.

[phototropic1]

Great reply by Nylan to my opinion on walk-behind vs ride-on! Very well thought out and presented. There is obviously a learning curve on the ride-on that I have not been able to get through on my limited time on a ride-on.
I still prefer the walk-behind. I still believe that it is a matter of personal preference and you should try them both out for as much time as possible.

[EpicInterlock]

Murphy Bros,

I posted a thread about 1-2 months ago trying to get input on the advantages and disadvantages of the mini skid steers. I am still in the process of figuring out which machine is the best for what I need it for.

Basically I need a machine, not a full sized skid steer to excavate for patios, retaining walls, and walkways in residental areas only....at least for now. Hand digging is what we have been doing for the past 4-5 years, and I'm ready to take the next step up.

Some one in my thread mentioned a few machines that were absolutely fantastic, but like I said, I'm still in the process of demoing them, so I still haven't decided on which to buy just yet.

If you'd like a excel spreadsheet on what info I've gotten so far, just let me know, and I'll post it for you and anyone who's interested in buying one in the future.

Basically, I was looking for a ride on or walk behind mini skid steer, but now I've narrowed my choices down to three machines. The Bobcat MT55 (44in wide), Bobcat 463 (sitdown machine, but very narrow, 36in), and the ASV RC30 (it's almost a full size machine, but it has tracks and very very light on the grass, no turf damage, also a sit down, 46.5in wide....www.asvi.com) They are all the same price, plus or minus $5,000 CDN.

Hope this helps.

[PSUscaper]

I've had the same 222 dingo for 6 years now. I can't imagine what I would have done without it it.

It is like having 2 extra guys on the job. Once mastered, the machine becomes part of you. Its almost like having extra legs and arms that move on your command.

Know what I do with the dingo stand on, I would never buy a 'cart' style walk behind. That tray would just get smashed, and worst, so would the rider. I think it would limit the machines effectiveness.

I don't mean to sound big headed, but I will flat out say, what I can do with the dingo will amaze you. It still amazes me. Why every landscaper doesn't own one, I do not know. It is, hands down, the most important machine I own. I wish I had a video camera taping what it does. From moving trees, to digging out 600 ft patios, grading lawns, digging out basements, etc.....I can't stop finding new things for it to do.

Whether or not the other machines are better, I would stick with another dingo when the time comes. It would be like cheating on my girlfriend.

[nylan]

Penn you take the words right out of my mouth. It is the best "2 employees I have ever hired". I have found it also doubles the productivity of my other employees because it does most of the heavy work and my men arent exhausted by 1:00 in the afternoon. Hands down the landscapers best friend and "EMPLOYEE OF THE YEAR!!" You can easily save 10-20% labor per job depending on what you are doing. IT PAYS FOR ITSELF!!!!!!

We depend on it so much that if we cant get it in the back yard, we pass on the job.

[mrusk]

Do you guys use your mini loaders on all jobs, or just jobs you can't get the full size skid steer on?

Matt

[Paydaze7]

We use our dingo on our all jobs. In fact i sold my cat 248 becuase we never used it. We do planting and soil prep so the dingo is a perfect fit for us. We dont do any hardscape work where heavy lifting is involved so we really didnt have a need for a skidsteer anymore. One of the WORST decisions I can say i've ever done in this business is not to buy a dingo years ago!!

Originally posted by mrusk
Do you guys use your mini loaders on all jobs, or just jobs you can't get the full size skid steer on?

Matt

[PSUscaper]

As the years go on, my find my skid really only works a few hours a week. The thing is, I just can't justify bringing it to the job. I can put the dingo in my enclosed trailer with all my tools, hook it up to the dump, and go. Sure, it would be nice to move a pallet of brick around on some of the jobs, but really, the dingo handles most of the work, and much cleaner. You don't rut the lawn all up or worry about scratching up the drive.

If you consider the time spent loading, transporting, unloading, then doing it all over again for the skid, it really makes it difficult to justify bringing it to the job. If you have to do 15 yards of topsoil, stone, etc....the dingo will do it, and often, do it with more precision and neater. Also, for smaller jobs, it kind of keeps pace with the flow of materials.

If we were doing 60k plus jobs all the time, I would probably be more a skid fan. But, when a majority of the work I do is under 20k, the job size fits the dingo very nicely.

My biggest complaint is that more and more manufactures are not banding their pavers anymore. As long as they are banded, you can move them very quickly with the dingo.

[Murphy Bros.]

Good evening all,

Well I talked to the Ditch Witch rep. about an hour ago, he called me back at 8:00 pm pacific time like he said he would if you can believe that. Anyways, he's bringing a machine out to the jobsite this wednesday for a demo, so I'll report back after the test drive.


Audie
MURPHY BROS. LANDSCAPES

[nylan]

Audie, I would go ahead and test the vermeer also if possible. Dont just test drive it, TEST WORK IT!!

The only time we use a bobcat is if we have to hire a full size dump truck. The dingo just wont reach high enough. True it takes longer to move a couple of loads of dirt but this time is offset by not having to do extensive turf repair. Also less risk for me because the dingo wont knock down a fence by bumping it like a full size can. Also greater 360 degree visibility