[jwholden]

I rented a wet 'tub' saw for the first time today. It was an edco with a 10" blade and 4 hp Honda engine. I have to say I was impressed!

I am used to using a Stihl ts400 chop saw and having dust all over the place, a sore back, and numb hands by the end of the day. The wet saw gave me none of the above.

Observations I made about the wet saw:
- more precise and much more pleasant to use.
- you don't 'screw up' the sand underneath the pavers by going too deep.
- you don't get dust all over the place, including 1/2" of dust on the patio.
- My back felt much better!
- 4 cycle honda engine is MUCH quiter than a 2 cycle stihl.
- No concerns about sucking in dust all day. Though I wore my respirator just in case.

The only drawbacks I could find are that the wet saw takes longer to set up and is definitely slower. I just can't determine if the slower speed is worth the convenience of the pita factor of using a ts400.

I parked the Dingo right next to the saw. All scraps went right into the bucket and then lost in the woods. Gotta love that efficiency!

[bigviclbi]

I just purchased a 14" wet saw a month ago and my guys love it. It is more hassle setting up but a lot easier on the back. More precise cuts as well. Small jobs I don't bring it but it definately is a must have for bigger jobs.

[HRLand]

It's funny how things work. We started with a 10" electric wet saw from the beginning and never thought about cutting in place with a demo until a couple years later. The first time I used a demo to cut in a job I thought that would be the only way from then on but the dust changed my mind after a few jobs. I picked up a used 14" gas wet saw this year but we don't use it much because of the weight.

[Paul]

Most newer hand saws have a water option. I found that a 14" saw was too slow unless we needed some very skilled detail work. Still we kept 2 14" wet saws in the hardscape trailers along with 2 hand saws.

[Bill Schwab]

If you are doing flatwork, 14" wet table saw I found works best. If you are doing walls, there ain't nothing like a 20" saw with a 15hp plus engine. Take an 8" thick block and make a perfect cut through the piece in about 15 seconds. No flipping sides to line the cuts up, no chance of an angle not being 90°.

[Stonehenge]

jw - the numb hands have more to do with the brand of saw than the type of saw - switch to something else for a day (Partner, etc) and you'll find there's no numbness.

We have 2 tub saws - never run them wet, though we could if we wanted. Too much silt left on the pavers - too often you can walk by a paver project installed using a wet saw and see every cut brick in a single glance, because all of them are a shade or two lighter, because of the brick dust getting deep into the pores of the brick. Se we run everything dry (and gear up for it).

The tub saws are great for the detail work. Just make sure there are enough saws (tub/cutoff) to keep guys busy - in the beginning I remember guys working out a "system" where one guy would mark and carry the brick to the saw, where the guy running the saw would cut it. While the guy cutting was working, the guy marking was waiting, and while the marker was marking, the cutter was waiting. I pretty much blew a gasket when I learned of this "system"....Make sure your guys don't develop a similar system....

[Pelican]

Jeff, if you're getting slurry stains on your bricks, then your saw isn't pumping enough water. I use a Target wet saw and only make wet cuts unless it's just one or two cuts and don't have a problem. I don't use the tub as a reservoir though, I've got an empty taping compound bucket I keep filled with fresh water to feed the pump. This way I'm always using clean water and the slurry doesn't clog the pump or lines. I set it directly behind the blade at the end of the tray.

You do have to be aware of the wind and which way your spray will blow. It will stain anything it comes in contact with so tarping might be necessary. I think cutting wet is healthier and it makes your blade last a little longer by running cooler.

I'm embarrassed to tell you guys how I did my first job!

I had a 7 1/2" radial saw by Craftsman that I bought a bunch of those masonry carbonite blades. I'd cut the bricks about 1/2 way through, then break them with a mason hammer. Way too much dust and little accuracy.

On my first substantial job, I rented a 10" Target table saw and never returned it! It saved me so much time and made the job so much better I bought it on the spot. That was 8 years ago and I'm still using it! I bought a second one this season because I'm getting into bigger jobs now where 2 guys can cut, in fact i had to because my helper and I were waiting on each other at the saw too often.

[Bill Schwab]

One thing we did to help with the staining is removed the belt driven pump that we originally set up and installed a set up very similar to that of a hand cut off saw. The garden hose always dumps clean water and if you need more prssure all you have to do is open the ball valve a tad more. And a huge plus.....A water pump will knock you back $400.00. The garden hose set up will run under $50.00 from the hardware store of your choice.

[Stonehenge]

No embarrassment there - when I first did pavers, we used the old guillotine-style splitter. Did it that way for years. Accuracy was marginal compared to today's tools, but once you got the hang of it, speed wasn't too bad.

The garden hose idea is agood one, Bill. I still kick myself for the two waterpumps on our two tub saws - a waste of money, the way we cut.

Even so, the sloshing around and carrying mud from the cutting area to the pavers (if cutting off of the patio) just makes cutting wet more of a mess. We cut dry, probably spend a bit more in blades, but when the job is done, hit the house with a blower for 30 seconds and we're good to go.

[Paul]

My question I have with all the tumbled pavers installed now days why are we still using saws?
Splitters will give a matching look to the pavers.

[jwholden]

Paul,

As I was hitting my freshly cut pavers with my masher I should have been thinking the same thing. I'll have to give the rental yard a call and see if they have one.

ALL,

Does a 14" tub saw have the capacity to cut angled coping on segmented retaining walls? It would be slick if I could get away with that!

[Stonehenge]

Originally posted by Paul
My question I have with all the tumbled pavers installed now days why are we still using saws?
Splitters will give a matching look to the pavers.

I've finally brought you around to the dark side, eh Paul? I'd been rallying for this idea for awhile, but nobody joined up with me. Glad to get you on my side.

Though our M.O. has changed - we still saw cut, but then we use a stonehammer for the cut edge to rough it up like the rest of the tumbled pavers. Seems to still be a bit faster than the guillotine.

JW - depends on how sharp an angle - the arms that hold up the saw are the only real constraint - if at an angle the piece won't fit through those arms, then it' a no go. Otherwise, we use the tub saws to cut caps often - especially when extra care and accuracy are needed.

[Bill Schwab]

"Does a 14" tub saw have the capacity to cut angled coping on segmented retaining walls? It would be slick if I could get away with that!"

As long as you can get the coping on the saw table, and the blade will pull it's way through the piece, you can cut them. A 20" saw for wall work is the only way to go however.

[PSUscaper]

I've been veering away from water more and more just because it creates such a mess.....

Setting the saw up, running water all over the place, time spent cleaning the saw when finished...........its just becomes such a major PITA.

For most jobs, the cut-off does most of the work......you cut all the outside edges of patios and walks much, much faster.

My operation is usually this.

We lay the patio. when we get done, the guys start setting up the tub saw, while I start marking out all my long outside cuts.

While I make the long cuts, the guys go to work on cutting in such things as circles, sharp angles, and areas where I can't get the cut-off in.

Then, while the guys run the tub, I have one of them start pulling cut scraps off the edges and start stacking bricks for the soldier course. They then go back to cutting usually and I start cutting soldier row 'pies' to go around radius's and what not.

Usually, it works out pretty well where the tub and cut-off cutting gets done at the same time, and then everyone jumps on finishing any soldier course laying, then edging, then sand.

The cut-off is just too fast of a system to go back to tub-saw only cutting only.

For myself, I hate the water attachment on the cut-off as I find it makes such a mess. Water sprays everywhere, and when your using polymeric joint sand, it sometimes takes too long for the patio to dry out to get the sweeping in.

One observation I have is using the cut-off in the rain....what a disaster..........you get a year long dust trail of sludge on the cutting line that does't go away without either a power washing or a year of rain... ..Basically, if it starts to rain, I stop all cut-off sawing untill it stops and has a chance to dry out for a few hours...which sucks.

In the end, i think its just a matter of the right combination of the two saws to get the job done efficiently.

[bigviclbi]

Here we HAVE to cut wet by township ordinance.