[Sodbuster]

If your're doing 1M in lawn mowing you do not need a big rig.
It takes big equip to do big jobs.

In landscape/pool construction. You are dealing with heavier equip and heavy materials. Doing demolition and heavy hauling is a fallout sale because of the capabilities of larger equip. The doors keep opening up. I'm providing hauling on large scale commercial demolition work because I now have the capabilities.

Don't be afraid of it....

[Paul]

What is a lawn mower? Never even owned one for my own homes!

[chesie]

*sigh*

[Bill Schwab]

Oh Paul you gotta see the weird ways they haul out here....You get a six wheeler, with a trailer, or you get a transfer, the six wheeler has a hydraulic lift on the tailgate and you disconnect the trailer, lock the brakes, back up to the trailer, than an air powered chain moves the box on the trailer into the six wheeler so it can dump....End dump semis typically are those barrel bottom models that are 35' long.... Then they have belly dumps....Typically the asphalt guys run the, they dump their hot loads on the street, then they got this weird thing that heards the asphalt into a chute while it drives, and spreads the stuff like the ones back home where the framed dumps tip into....

They claim for weight restrictions....Then they got 6 wheel super tankers....A get this, 20 yard body on a 6 wheeler, with a hydralic set of dolly wheels like on the rear of a concrete mixer that place pressure on the nose of the truck when activated....

All cement mixers are rear load because 99% of all crete is pumped, and 15 yard semi barrels are pulled behind tractors...

They do some wierd stuff out here....Like when I ordered my roll off boxes they thought I was nuts for having the tailgates cut even with the top rails....Out here it is common for the back gates to be 2' higher than the rails to catch crap whilst rolling down the road.... It is common to wait a week before any roll off companies get you a box!

Then they hook sleeper cabs up to end dumps all the time....Then you got yer NAFTA/GAT trucks pulling with 500K old rigs, broken springs, no insurance, trailers with no lights comming out of Baja all day and night...When I see a semi with a Baja plate, I get far away from that boy!

[Stonehenge]

Sodbuster - That you're going to make money on your truck is great. But let me assure you that Paul has done projects of a scope at least as big as yours. He didn't do residential - too small.

He may not run big trucks, but with being able to retire at 50, he must've done something right, and done it in a big way.

[Sodbuster]

My home in the Suburb is mowed by some of my people w/ZTR. At my farm the field stock acrerage is mowed with New Holland TC45 w/ 5'bushhog. The common areas around the greenhouses are mowed with 36" walkbehind. The propagation greenhouses common areas are mowed with 21" walkbehinds.

The lake and horse pastures are mowed with New holland TC45 w/ 6' bushog. The home and shops are mowed with 36" walkbehind.

[Sodbuster]

That is real good paul will retire. I hope he enjoys it.

[Stonehenge]

Originally posted by Sodbuster
My home in the Suburb is mowed by some of my people w/ZTR. At my farm the field stock acrerage is mowed with New Holland TC45 w/ 5'bushhog. The common areas around the greenhouses are mowed with 36" walkbehind. The propagation greenhouses common areas are mowed with 21" walkbehinds.

The lake and horse pastures are mowed with New holland TC45 w/ 6' bushog. The home and shops are mowed with 36" walkbehind.

I thought we were talking about trucks.

[Sodbuster]

I tried to discuss the move from medium duty trucks to the big rigs, but it got interrupted by someone who has not made the move from medium duty to the big rigs. Discussion from the perspective of a landscaper and highly trained accountant.

7 years ago Aug 19th, I bought a lesco aerator and started a lawn service. I could try to discuss the journey and challenges of getting to where I am today.... but it most likely will take the course this thread has taken.

I'll continue to post pics of some of my gigs, maybe some of my nursery operations. Ornamental tree, shrub and ground cover propagation, container and field stock growing operations.

[Mark Oomkes]

Originally posted by Sodbuster
I tried to discuss the move from medium duty trucks to the big rigs, but it got interrupted by someone who has not made the move from medium duty to the big rigs. Discussion from the perspective of a landscaper and highly trained accountant.

Sounds more like you tried turning it into a pissing match instead of a discussion on trucks.

I really know nothing about Paul or his operations, but I do know that it is usually not a good idea to start slamming somebody else's operations when you don't know anything about that person or his business. Then you throw into the equation the regional differences and you can really make wrong assumptions.

We had a discussion that made me realize that I was not open to regional differences a month or so ago while discussing the number of crew members on a maintenance crew. GLAN runs 5 people on a crew in LI because his customers don't want him on site more than once a week as well as making it very efficient for him to get everything done at once. I'm in MI and it would be very unprofitable for me to run a 5 person crew, in fact we have a couple 1 man crews.

Nobody is doubting your experience as a landscaper or an accountant. Look at the number of posts Paul has and how long he has been a member (for me this tells me a lot), he has experience and knowledge. BTW, if you read Stone's post Paul did retire at 50, not going to. Paul knows his area, his numbers and what does or doesn't work for him in his area. Don't try to tell somebody a thousand miles away how they have to run their business, it isn't the same.

Just my $.02.

[Sodbuster]

I simply bought a new big rig. I'm sorry it struck a nerve with Paul. The truck is at my welders getting 20 ton pintel hitch, plumbing for trailer air brakes and more lighting on the 17 cu. yd Ox body.

There are three ways to analyzing the financial aspects of truck ownership.

• Analysis of truck using discounted cash flow.
• The payback method.
• Nonuniform cash flows.

You can also apply the bailout factor as an extention of payback.

In your sensitivity analysis, income tax savings should also considered in your strategy.

[Bill Schwab]

Having lived and worked in two areas, there are definitley ways that work in one and won't work in the other. I agree with Mark very much about regional differences.
And, there are very different methods of accounting and making/loosing money. Though the tax codes are supposed to be the same nation wide, areas all of us operate in and methodologies vary just as much.

Large trucks for most operators are serious liabilties that need planning and consideration prior to jumping into a purchase. . The best part of this forum is when we have intelligent differences of opinion, because I feel, that is where I learn the most.
Where Sodbuster has a pretty extensive accounting experience, he looks at numbers in a different way than most of us who learned as we went along. He knows those numbers very well. Paul on the other hand has some serious hands on experience, knows his numbers, and what worked to get him to the level of where he is at today. Both very respectable positions I may add.

If a truck works for reasons Sodbuster lists, then it is right for you. If however, you have this big ego thing going, as I did once upon a time, and had to had every power thumping piece of whatever just to have it, I'm betting you have a heavy truck for the wrong reasons. Or, if you can get services like they are available in the midwest, why take on that liability?

So, thank you Paul for reminding me to look at other means if feasable before dropping big bucks on a truck (the testosterone was boiling again) and thank you Sodbuster for citing the reasons a big truck works in our operations, and for listing that cool accountant style bullet point reasoning for considering purchase... I can now read it instead of seaching for words why or why not, and in an instant, see numbers and and reasons more clearly than before.

[Dale Wiley]

Regional differnences account a lot. I have traveled all over this country and worked with over 100 different landscape companies and really, did not find two operations exactly alike.

I too can hire dump trucks at $ 60 an hour, but have to wait days for them. Our jobs do not put us in the market for the larger dump trucks right now, but I have ran the numbers and being able to haul my own materials at any time, make the margin on the materials formely made by the middle man, and then make money on the transportation, syas I can invest in a smaller type rig.

We have a 14GVW dump trailer and a F 350 with 12GVW. I put 10,500 boulders on the trailer, and 8500 wall rock on the truck. Brought it down from a quarry in the mountains 112 miles round trip. Total cost for materials was $ 385. Overhead cost on the truck and my time $ 288.00 My time is already paid out of overhead, so I got a nice drive, caught up on some phone calls and spent quality time with my dog.

Rock dealer would have charged me
$ 1,441 delivered. I can mark the rock up 3 times plus transportation.

Works for me.

[Pelican]

It will be interesting to bring this thread back one year from now and see if the enthusiasm still exists.

[Mark Oomkes]

Sodbuster, I didn't mean to imply that it won't\doesn't work for you. You appear to be very intelligent and good with numbers, just realize that everybody's operations are different, just like you can't grow zoysiagrass or St Augustine in Michigan and bluegrass in Georgia.

I have done similar things like Bill. A few years ago we had to have batwing mowers at about $45K a piece. Lost a bunch of big jobs, got rid of all but one and continued to use it. Found out the next year that we could do a comparable or better job just as fast with a $15K machine. Big eye-opener for me. Bad mistake that cost us quite a bit of money and took a couple years to recover from. (There's also a little sideline to this story about never trusting salesmen. )