I know many here are not in the lawn care business, but for those who are I'd like to share my Kubota experience.
2 seasons ago I was shopping for a replacement for my Skag Z rider which had been troublesome from the day I purchased it. I wanted a diesel powered machine since I have fuel storage here and that would eliminate frequent trips to the gas station. This limited my selection to Skag, Exmark and Kubota, the only models sold locally.
The price tag and past performance of my Skag scared me off that machine, plus the diesel had a 2 1/2" turbocharger on it. That scared me too, I suspected early failure of the turbo considering the size and environment, plus I don't suspect my guys would allow proper cool down .
I stopped at the Exmark dealer twice to see their machine, the salesman said he'd call with info but he never did follow up after my repeated calls. If I can't get serviced by sales, what can I expect from the service department?
Anyway, the Kubota was $2000 less than the nearest competitor and came with some added features. It has a hydraulic hoist for the deck, a wet clutch for the PTO, shaft driven deck and built in jack for easy blade removal. I bought a 60" deck.
This machine has proven to be one of the smartest purchases I've made! I've gone from using 7 gallons of gas a day to about 3 1/2 gallons of diesel. I never lack for power and this machine hugs side hills tremendously! The quality of cut is at least as good as the machine I replaced, but not quite as nice as my 52" walk behind.
I've got nearly 1000 hours on it and have made only three repairs. One a flat tire, then the fan belt rubbed a hole in a cooling hose (mis-located hose) and a stripped blade nut (my fault). I made all the repairs myself, while my other machines had made numerous visits to the dealer with fewer hours.
There are 2 changes I'd make to the machine, and one of those Kubota has already addressed. My front anti scalp wheels sometimes scrape the turf when turning into a hill, Kubota has replaced these with swiveling models on the new decks.
The other is the blade attachment. They use a system of small gauge threaded bolt with an oversized washer to hold the blade on the spindle. You must be very careful not to cross thread when changing blades, there are a lot of things to hold in place while doing it. I managed to strip one so far, fortunately I didn't damage the spindle. I keep a spare nut/washer assembly in the truck now, "just in case" as these are specialized items.
I'd recommend this machine to anyone considering a new Z rider, it has served me very well so far!
I had a major problem with this machine a few weeks ago, the first. My crew chief called and said the machine was vibrating badly and making noise when he tried to move it. I went to investigate and noticed the hydro oil was down just a hair and the pump sounded like it was starving. I topped it off and started it, but no change. When I tried to load it on the trailer, it got halfway there and BANG!, something broke and the machine was DOA.
I dropped it at the dealer and got a report a couple days later. Apparently they used a bearing that was too small on drive unit on early models, this had failed on the left side and that axle was dead. The input shaft had broken and contaminated the rest of the system.
My machine was 25 months old, the warranty is 2 years, but Kubota instructed the dealer to back date the work order so it was covered as they were aware it had a problem. Not only did they replace the damaged drive unit, but they replaced the other side as well along with a number of hydraulic components. I had to pay labor on the job which came to just over $300, but I saw the parts list which totaled to almost $5000!! Kubota stepped up to the plate in my opinion.
I've had another problem with this machine since my last post too. The seat has a suspension system to absorb bumps, and it has bushings with bolts as pivot points. I'm not sure what caused this, but 3 of 4 bolts were broken and 2 of 4 bushings had worn through and egg shaped the holes in one pivot bracket. I've got parts on order, we'll see how long the repair lasts.
Kubota has also come out with a higher lift blade than what the machine came with. This has improved the cut dramatically on par with the most respected brands. All in all, I'm still happy with my purchase and the service I've received.
It's been a while since I posted about my Kubota. Kubota made a number of improvements (or so I thought) to the ZD28 and with the troubles I had with the transmission on mine I decided to upgrade in the '05 season to the new model. Improvements were the fabricated deck vs. the stamped deck on the old model and swiveling anti-scalp wheels on the deck corners.
The cut quality was a bit better with the new deck, but the swiveling casters still cut the turf when turning in to a slope. The casters are urethane, cost $50 a piece and last about half a season, a little disappointing. The fan on the blades is bigger than the originals and does a better job of lifting the grass to be cut.
It wasn't long into the season before a hydraulic line blew. It was warranted, but it was here that I learned about Kubota's parts network, or lack of. It turns out that parts other than blades and filters take about a week to get, so I was without it for a week and a few days. I also left a trail of oil on a new customer's lawn. I immediately hosed it down as best I could, but it still browned out.
During the '06 season a flange on a steel hydraulic line broke from fatigue and I was down again. No major spill this time, I saw the leak before it was too bad. Still warranted, and I noticed that the new line had a thicker stronger flange on it. I was down another week though.
This season we've had unusually rapid grass growth and it's been tough to keep up. I've discovered another shortcoming of Kubota, the way that it disperses clippings. When the grass is a bit long, the clippings come out in a windrow rather than being scattered. At the very least I have to make a second pass with the deck raised to make the job presentable. More often a 3rd pass is required, costing a bunch of time.
2 days ago I noticed an oil trail while cutting. I brought the machine home, hosed it off and found the same steel line that broke before was leaking. I saw the bolt had backed out, but when I went to tighten it, it just spun in the hole, the threads were stripped!! The bolt had pulled out of the pump housing.
This has used up what was left of my patience with this machine. I'm without the machine again, likely to be an extended period this time and I've had to cart the machine to the dealer which is just over an hour round trip. The machine is still under warranty, but once it is repaired I'm getting rid of it. It's just costing me too much time and time is too precious in this business.
I felt obligated to do a follow up post on this machine. I'm really getting frustrated with it at this point, the past two seasons there have been a number of issues. Last season the left side drive was weakening, to the point of not being able to mow some grades at customers' lots. I nursed it through the end of the season and tore it down over the winter.
Kubota uses an integrated pump/drive system on these machines, in other words both the drive pump and drive motor are contained within the same housing. They also use piston style pumps and motors verses the gear style found in most other machines. The assembly also has a swash plate valve assembly built in to control speed and direction. These units are $2500 per machine side, and if one side of the unit goes, be it pump or drive, the whole assembly is replaced.
I found in mine that a bearing similar to a crankshaft bearing had come loose and had essentially "spun" on the swash plate restricting flow to the drive motor. The dealer said it was a common problem and that they usually just replace the unit at $2500 plus labor. I didn't have that money so ordered the parts and began repairs. I had to drill out and extract the broken retaining screw for the bearing, which was close to a #4 screw in size, extremely small. I drilled it out at 1/16" and made an extractor out of a deck screw, it worked!! Reassembled and started using it this season. It worked nearly as good as new.
A couple months ago the fuel pressure regulator on the engine fell apart and the engine "ran away". On a diesel engine if there's no control of fuel pressure, the engine will keep accelerating until it blows up. Fortunately I was operating at the time and knew what was happening, I jumped off the machine and folded the intake tube over and suffocated the engine before it blew. I had to take it to the dealer as this repair was beyond my skills, cost me nearly $700. Had someone with no diesel experience been running it at the time, I'd surely be looking for a new engine.
A few weeks ago the left drive unit started acting up again, hills were becoming a problem. I can't tear it down mid season like this so I'm running straight 60W oil in it to get me through. it's working out so far. I also discovered the hydraulic cooler is cracked for the second time, same place as last. machine vibration causes the tube to crack at a flange weld. Another $100 part, second time now.
Yesterday one of the steering spindle bearings blew apart and the machine was down again. Called Kubota, minimum 1 week for parts, probably longer with the holiday. I was able to clean the parts and get numbers off them, called NAPA and had the parts this morning. I didn't check the amount, but I expect about $50 and a day and a half down time.
If I weren't able to do most repairs myself, I'd have easily spent the purchase price again on this machine for repairs, and had who knows how much down time. I can't recommend this machine to anyone......well maybe that guy who's running around lowballing me....nor recommend any machine with integrated pump/drive units. Too expensive to repair. I'm again hoping to make it through the season and wish to replace it for next season, though I'm not sure how with the market where it is.
Hey Pelican, wow this was an interesting post, and quite the 5 year journey on your part. From what initially looked to be the smartest purchase, to something you can’t recommend. First, I commend you for following up on this as I have known many people that have a hard time admitting to getting stuck with a bad purchase, or lemon, especially if at first they were happy about it. It’s like a humility thing, anyway, good for you. I am not in the business, nor am I looking for a ZTR, but more on the curious side of how things will turn out.
After this experience, is going back to a Skag a reasonable alternative? How about the Exmark? My knowledge of ZTR’s is almost zero (pun intended), but I know that what you see in your neck of the woods can be attributed to many things, like dealer presence. In my area the majority of ZTR’s are Toro’s, followed closely by Cub’s, and then some Skag’s. Never heard of Exmark (which doesn’t mean a lot) and although Kubota is a big and well known company (I have one of their tractor’s), I have never seen a Kubota ZTR (except pictures) working. Are you going to bite the bullet and go to a gas model? I am sure with the hours you do weekly, the convenience of your diesel tank is one thing, but the added expense of running gas would surely add up.
Again, more curious than anything else, just hoping things work out for you.
As you mentioned, dealer support will play a big part in a replacement machine should the time come. I made it through the season with the Kubota, with the market what it is I don't know if I'll be able to replace it or not. When I was shopping for the Kubota I couldn't get the Exmark dealer to return my calls, so I ruled them out. I guess Scag would be a consideration, I think they've made improvements since I had so much trouble with their introductory model.
One machine I would consider seriously is Dixie Chopper. Even though the dealer is an hour away, most of the parts on the machine are universal and can be found at either a hardware store or auto parts store. It also is available with a 66" deck, 6" wider than I've been running. That has to do wonders for production. I'd opt for a diesel again, between the fuel economy and being able to store my own fuel it pays off rather quickly. Plus a diesel is much more durable than a gas engine. Time will tell whether this is just a pipe dream.
Steve, Dixies are pretty popular here but I have to warn you - their cut quality is junk. They will last forever but I dont know if you want that with the cut they put out.
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Sales are vanity, Profit is sanity, and Cash is King.
That's interesting, I've never heard that complaint before. I only know one person who has one and he's pretty satisfied with his cut quality. I'd like to hear more on that. As I mentioned, the dealer is an hour away with a toll bridge in between, so they are not strong in my immediate area, in fact I only know of one being used at a tree farm between the rows of trees, cut quality is not a concern to them, they just want the grass and weeds kept under control.
one or the larger companies here has ran DCs for as long as I can remember - they have somewhere between 15 - 20 units (60s and 72s). Like I said, they last forever but the cut they put out is sub par compared to my exmarks. Recently they have began replacing old units with Scags.
Another of the larger companies used to run 4 DCs on - their lawns always had clumps and heavy clippings on them when they used DCs. now they switched to Hustlers and their work looks a tad bit better.
Last example has 6 or 7 units, some 60s and two 72s. I have a number of homes that have lawns that touch theirs and I can say that the cut quality is no where near what we are putting out. The stringers and matted down, uncut grass is pretty severe on their sides.
Again, I have never purchased one just because of what I have seen. Ive been more than happy with my exmarks.
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Sales are vanity, Profit is sanity, and Cash is King.
Steve try hustler, I like using their mowers.
I'm with Mac on the Dixies.
I can'tsee spending 3-4 grand more on a mower( scag or ferris) when the hustler does just as well, good on hills too.
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