[agla]

I look at a lot of landscape related messageboards. A very recurring theme is new designers looking for software to help them with their plans. There is nothing wrong with that, but it really still relies on your input. Without some experience or exposure to some graphic techniques, a cad plan is going to look just as flat and sterile as a neatly drawn pencil plan. The biggest difference is that most of us already know how to use a pencil and don't have to fight a learning curve.

What i would suggest that new designers do is to start out with graph paper, a circle template, and mechanical pencil (pentel #7). I use a 4x4 quad ruled planning paper that you can find at any Staples or other office supply.

All you have to do is determine what scale you are drawing at and assign a distance for each square on the grid. If it is 1"=8', then each line is 2' apart. Trace over the lines on the paper to quickly draw the existing house, walks, driveways,... Then use the circle template to draw in plants. It is always controvercial over what size to draw in plants. (I like to draw them in at the size that I expect them to be in the next 3-5 years. We are planting 30/36" and 3/5' corner shrubs most of the time). The reason I use that size in the plan is to make sure that there is enough room for the plants as they mature, the beds will not be empty at planting time, and I have a rich looking plan.

Back to the plan.
Here is the important part.
Once you have the lines and circles drawn out, you have to give this plan some life. I carry four black pens - a very fine line, a little thicker, more thick, and a sharpie. You have to assign line hierarchy to make this plan pop. The building gets the sharpie, walkways and driveways get the next level down, the plants vary with the thinner ones. You also need to develop just a few plant symbols to make the circles more representative. Another key thing is to shadow the ground to the lower right of each plant to make them pop.

Carry colored pencils to really add some spice. Color in the full plant symbol with a light shade of the color you want, then darken the lower right part to give it a rounded appearance. This can be done in your pickup after a quick meeting. Knock back on the door and you will wow the client with a pretty big impression. Don't give him the plan to shop with, tell him that you need to take it back to work up an estimate.

Selling landscapes is half plans and portfolio, and half is the impression you make. This goes a long way at your first meeting. A great plan without someone that seems responsive is not going to win out over a person that has a good plan and makes the right impression.

The reason that I started this thread before I went on this tangent was to point out that you stll need to understand line hierarchy and other graphic techniques when using cad. Cad won't do it for you. It is still relying on your input which is limited to your understanding of graphics. Without that, every line is the same thickness. The only thing you get is straight clean lines, circles, and maybe some plant symbols (I line weight them differently as well).

One tip that I will tell cad users is to always try to use the same plant symbols, at the same size, and at the same line weight. That gets you very familiar to a sense of scale in your drawings as you zoom in and out. You get that connection to the drawing that many designers complain is lacking when they first use cad. I feel more connected in CAD in feeling space than I did on paper, but it took a while.

Look in book stores or libraries for architectural graphics or even landscape architectural graphics books to learn some techniques or standards whether you use CAD or paper. It will go a long way to improving the look of your drawings.

[Paul]

Someone said I didn't like Landscape Architects, now I have to change my mind .

Very well done Agla!

[scl]

Lotsa of common sense things, but things peopleforget.
I have exactly one semester of college drafting, thats DRAFTING, the good old fashioned 1980 way. But even that little bit of background helps. I'd really like to get to the computer stuff, just to quicken things up some. And I've seen some of these programs that have 2d and 3d effects, but I think I'm gonna try a sample of good old Autocad.
I agree, good post!

[Stonehenge]

I had a couple years of drafting in high school, and it did help to give me some of the basics you need to create a design or read a plan.

The concept of line weight is a good one, and one that I've frankly not paid much attention to. Agla, when using your pens, is this on a completed plan? Otherwise, I'm thinking this sounds like a sculpture, where you aren't allowed mistakes (no erasers).

I'm always interested in artistic techniques - do you have any scanned plans that you added color to, via marker or pencil, that you can share here? If they need cropping, email them to me and I'll handle that.

[jwholden]

Nice post Agla.

The thing I like about the cad program I tried is that you can assign a different line weight when you draw the foundation, walks etc. I have yet to see the value of cad, but most of my work is not big enough to warrant it.

I used to use a 3,5,7,9 felt tip pen, but now move the ruler a hair to make the foundation thicker. I don't have to switch pens and if I make a mistake on line weight I'm not screwed.

As for the graph paper, NEBS sells a pad that is 11x17 with four squares per inch. This works for 90 % of the designs I do. I get the sheets preprinted with my company name and phone number and there are blanks to fill in with the clients information. In addition, most places with copy machines make this size copy and it doesn't cost a ton.

I tuck my drawing into a manila presentation folder with my estimate and a brochure. People see the difference between me and 80 % of my competition. However, it STILL depends WHAT THE CLIENT IS LOOKING FOR, all this effort is wasted if I don't have the right person on the other end.

I HATE 1/8 scale. Everything looks so darn small. I know it is necessary on large jobs but I avoid that scale whenever possible. For bigger jobs I end up drafting the whole plan out with no graph paper. PITA.

[Stonehenge]

That's interesting....

A few years ago I moved away from using anything but 2 sizes of paper (well, 3): 8.5" x 11 (or 14), and 18"x24".

I use the big stuff for full landscape plans. I just have to suck up a trip to Kinkos to copy those. But for anything less than that, I put it on paper that I can scan/copy from my desk, so I eliminate a trip.

But I never use graph paper. I don't mean to insult anyone that uses it, but I was always concerned that to a client it would look like I couldn't perform 'real' drafting, so I used a crutch. Now all of that may just be in my head. I dunno.

But I do get enjoyment from taping up a fresh piece of vellum onto the drafting board and starting to work.

I'm confused - am I understanding that when using cad, people are then printing off the drawing, then going back over it in pen? I guess I'm not understanding where the pens fit into this.

[Paul]

You can get non reproducable graph paper that way when you copy it you don't see the graph lines.

With Cad you can assin a different line width to any line you draw or even change a line or symbol drawn. That way what ever printer you print to will draw a line that width. Line weights give the plan some life, and with a hand drawn line width changes they are not so perfect. Which reminds me does anyone remember the program for Auto-Cad that gave you squiggly lines from straight one? It sure made some nice presatations for me in the old days!

[PSUscaper]

Gonna try and get a drawing up a little bit clearer if I can, but just wanted to explain a few of my opinions and figured a sample drawing may help.

First of all......I laugh at the idea of trying not to be less than 8 scale......most drawings are at 10 scale for myself.........I only have a 24"x36" plotter and wish I had bigger(i'm a idiot for not spending the extra couple bucks for the 36" wide plotter) and find I have to break most drawings up into at least 2 pieces even at 10 scale.

I'm big on line weight........but cad does that very nicely. I don't really change my weight......I just change the tone. You can put things on different layers, some very light, some very dark. I find this to be most effective.

I do some line weight when needed.....for instance, I always make the house very heavy. Everything else I don't worry about so much. Line weight's take time.......I hate spending more time than I have too!

In case your wondering, I do not print my drawings in color like the one below.....they get printed in grey scale. I personally think that the 'colored' print job looks cheezy. If I want color, I'll go back later and hand render a little bit. Usuually, a little bit of water marker on the back and some pastel crayon sticks on the big spaces.

I do all my shading on the computer.....nothing fancy though. Just a little bit in the trees and shrubs. I basically stick to a library of about 20 or so symbols.

I really, really try to do no hand rendering.....the days of screwing up one line at the end of a 20 hour drawing and having to redo it will lead you to this.

[scl]

Penn,
I clicked on this and got a blank Paint doc. What am I missing?

[dan deutekom]

Over the years I have dealt with many LA's and designers and I have always envied the way that they can grab a pencil and piece of paper and draw a sketch or quick plan of what they are thinking. The sketches to me were almost like pieces of art. They would have shading and 3dimensioning and proportions etc. I have worked off of many drawings done on a napkin while we were having lunch! I never could develop that skill. Alga's post is excellent. He makes it sound so simple. But over the years that skill has alluded me despite always working on it. But not to be called a quitter I will try to do what he suggests

[dan deutekom]

Oh by the way
I got a blank paint screen to Penn

[agla]

The technique that I described is one that I used to do when I worked for a company that did a high volume of consultations. It is a quick, but accurate sketch. It is not something that I do for a presentation or even a working plan. People expect a well drafted full plan from me because of that silly rubber stamp, so that is what I do.

I've got to tell you, I don't think any of you can draw worse than me. I have bricks (or pavers) for hands. That template and graph paper technique does not have to be well drawn. It just needs the bells and whistles of the line weights, the shadows, and the color to get attention. Many of you are not going to have to produce overly technical plans. You just need to communicate and demonstrate knowledge to people in a fast efficient manner.

I'm notice that a lot of CAD users refer to setting line weight as time consuming. I don't put thickness to lines, but set up the colors to print at a certain thickness. All I do is draw using the appropriate color for the right thickness. All my drawings use the same color system, so it is second nateure to me. I usually assign the color by layer, but occaissonally change the properties of individual items on a layer. It is one more way to feel tied into the drawing.

I do black and white prints as well. I sometimes throw some colored pencil on them if it is in front of a group. Very seldom do I do any more than a plan view. It is just not valued enough to warrant the time and expense. The portfolio, the plan, and mostly my ability to give them the understanding that their needs are being met. Plans only speak so much by themselves.

[jwholden]

Steve,

Laugh if you must but a foundation planting is going to look pretty stupid in 10 scale. As an entire yard will look pretty huge in 4 scale.

Here's a design I did this Spring. This is one I should never have done in the first place, but there was snow on the ground and I had some time on my hands.

I think it makes a nice presentation.

[Bill Schwab]

The CLCA has officially endorsed DIG software and can get us special pricing on it....

I have never been a big computer design fan at all, but, am reconsidering...

[Will Pacala]

Same, I like using the older way. Pencils and papers are great. I do use the computer though, it really helps sometimes.