[schleng]

Does anyone use Eaglepoint and Bricscad?
Eaglepoint modules can use different programs as their "base" program, and often it is AutoCad. I had a very old version of Cad which was not working well. Eaglepoint talked me into purchasing Bricscad, which was very inexpensive. It used to be called Intellicad and I know there are posts on this in another thread.

Except for the fact that my computer sometimes struggles since it's old, things have been going well.

Recently Bricscad came out with a new version. The salesman from Eagleoint told me that Eaglepoint is not supporting. But they are offering AutoCad Maps for the great, discounted price of $1800.00!! (sarcasm)

Right now what I have is working, but I am anticipating that as Eaglepoint upgrades its software, compatibility problems might start. And besides, why should I not be able to use a new and improved Bricscad?

I was just wondering if anyone else was in this same situation. I'll probably sit tight for now, but not forever.

Susan

[agla]

I used Eaglepoint with Bricscad as its "stand alone" cad engine back in 2002-2003. I was very used to acad 12 and 14 prior to that. At first I liked the Bricscad alright, but I started running into several things that I did not like. Eaglepoint Landscape Design module, Quantity Takeoff module, a rendering module, and I forgot the last module)

One thing that really got to me was that it handled survey points in odd ways from what I was used to. It had to do with nested blocks and freezing layers. That may or may not affect you. Another thing that I found was that although it was convenient to have attributes attached to blocks (such as plant symbols), but it was not worth the effort because it took longer to do than it saved in the end. I did not like the plant symbol keys because it had the symbols all at the same size in the key although they varied widely in the plan.

I switch to Acad Lt in 2004 and never missed a beat. I also went back to working in an engineering office that year, but stayed working part time for the design/build landscape company. In 2005, the engineering company decided to modernize their software from Acad 12 with Civil Survey. They opted for Carlson Survey for survey points, cut & fill, and generating topo (had acad cad engine without the price). But, the site planners just got Acad Lt 2005. The only thing we missed was the ability to point in or extract survey points and generate topo. It is unlikely that you are doing either of those, so it should not matter.

If you do much with 3d, Acad LT won't help.

I currently use Acad Land Desktop 3d 2009 in the engineering office that I currently work in (not the same one that used Lt). And I bought Acad LT 2008 for my side landscape architecture office. I did demo Bricscad, Accellicad, and Progecad (all three are part of the Intellicad consortium). I really wanted to have the full acad clone at $300-$500, but I found there were several things that really bothered me, so I spent about $900 on the Acad Lt because I did not want to deal with the frustration. I have not regretted it.

It has been very stable in Vista on my laptop (1.8 gig AMD processor with a gig of RAM).

There is a nice new feature that allows you to convert annotations from one scale to another which is very handy if you are using cad files from surveyors or engineers that are done in 20 or 30 scale while you use 8 or 10. You can also change layer colors in individua viewports if you plot using color for lineweight. Polygonal viewports are nice too.

[schleng]

Hi Agla,
Thanks so much for all of your information.

I have been using Eaglepoint since I began computer design. All of my designs are in this format.

I don't believe you can use Autocad LT with Eaglepoint. Don't ask me why....it would certainly be a solution.

Although I do a huge amount of grading on my drawings, I basically work with spot elevations. Occasionally I'll do some contours if it's intricate and I am having a hard time seeing terrain.

What I would love would to be able to put my spot elevations in and have a program create contours and a 3D image from my design...both existing and proposed. Is this something AutoCad does? I work alone and I always have, so I have never had the opportunity to gather more expertise from others in an office. What I do , computer-wise, I have learned on my own, except for a few AutoCad classes.

Currently for 3D, I import my drawing into Sketchup. Sketchup is fun, colorful, and fairly easy. But it is another step, rather than automatic, and takes a lot of time. In addition, to get any kind of terrain in it is so difficult, that I basically gave up...so that's a big limitation.

If I could do 2D to 3D with Acad, I would find that pretty interesting. If there would be a HUGE learning curve, I might not do it, but if it was not too difficult to learn, I might consider a more expensive Acad. This would work with Eaglepoint.

I actually am very used to Eaglepoint. I like the symbols and make them whatever size I want on the drawing. I actually love how it will automatically give you a complete plant list of what is in the drawing. I have found it to be accurate. Any mistakes were by me!

Anyway, once again, thanks.
Susan

[papercutter]

Susan, as you know I also do a fair bit of 3D work in SketchUp. When you say creating terrain is difficult, do you mean with the sandbox tools? I almost never use those. My SU drawings are for conceptual purposes only, so I just set my spot grades relative to first floor height and "stitch" between them. It's still not "instant" but I can do a fairly detailed model's terrain this way in about an hour, and I can make any inaccuracies go away in Photoshop.

I also save a lot of time by bringing my AutoCAD .dwg file into SketchUp and going from there. Just something else to think about.

Anyhow, I know that doesn't address your actual question (I know nothing of either software) but if you want more info on my CAD to SU workflow, let me know.

[schleng]

Dave,
Thanks. Stitching spot elevations....sounds up my alley. I sent you a message for further info.
Susan

[smithule]

I know this is a little off topic but rather than start a new thread.

What is the best add-on to Acad LT for landscaping? Right now I'm just using some blocks that I found online for free.

[agla]

Acad Lt is designed to not allow add on programs in order that you will by the full autocad. That is why it won't work with Eaglepoint.

Acad will not generate contour on its own. You need the Land Desktop to do that. Eaglepoint did have a terrain model module. Ther are some less expensive terrain modeling survey programs out there, but it is typically done from survey points with attributes. Some of the surveyors will give you points when they send you a file, but some don't like to.

A lot of surveyors really like Carlson software. I know that they are not going to be able to use Acad as their cad engine in the new releases. I don't know if the older versions that use it are still available. It is not very expensive for what it is. I just don't know if it would be that useful to you.

Unless you are exporting to a modeling program or doing a lot of cut/fill calc's, I don't know why you would need to generate proposed contours. Do you get existing contours from surveyors and engineers, or are you drafting your own base plans?

[schleng]

I typically have a surveyor go out to my projects. He gets all the spot elevations for me. I then take his dwg. drawing and it becomes the base for my drawing.

I discussed contours, as I thought it might be necessary info needed to possibly create a 3D image of the proposed design. I have never explored to see if there was software that did this....making a 3D from a 2D automatically. I thought perhaps Acad did.

[papercutter]

Susan- the closest I've seen to an automated process, is SketchUp allows you to import the CAD file and you can actually select individual contour lines and adjust them on the Y-axis to the proper height relationship. When these are set, you simply select all the contours and hit "From Contours" under the Sandbox Tools. It works beautifully, but there are three reasons I don't do it this way: If the CAD drawing doesn't have contour lines, it's one more step I have to do; it's hard to then modify the terrain map (usually the contours are existing grades I'm modifying); and last, if I have an engineered site plan it's probably a good-sized lot, which means this method creates lots of complex faces and edges. This makes my processor move like molasses in January. Uphill.

Maybe AGLA can comment- I know that starting with AutoCAD 2007 (full), Autodesk started providing better 3D tools that operate similarly to SketchUp. Do the newest versions of AutoCAD have something similar to, or better than, the function I described above?

[schleng]

I know what you are talking about in Sketchup. I have explored that, and actually used it once, but had to create the contours. It was a very small area, so it wasn't too bad. But who wants to do that for an entire property when it works for you to just use spot elevations?

There is a program...can't recall the name right now...that does something like what we are discussing. I think this is the way it works. You bring your drawing (from Acad or SU? not sure) with all of your spot elevations into this program. Supposedly it creates the contours. Then you bring it back to SU to smooth it all out. Sounds like alot of work to me, which is why I never explored it.

I'd be interested in the answer to your last quetion in your post regarding Acad and its 3D abilities.

Susan

[agla]

Even acad Lt has three dimensions. You can assign a "z" value to anything (x is right -left, y is up - down on the screen, z is the third dimension). It does not do 3d faces or meshes.

I sit in front of the full acad 3d land desktop all day every day, but I am not using the 3d modeling at all. It is not called for where I work and have to be actively involved in jobs that are being billed, so I can't really spend time exploring it.

[schleng]

I find 3D design fascinating, but also time consuming. I'll do it if requested by a client.

I will admit that there are times when I will take a design I am working on and do a rough Sketchup 3D for myself. I usually don't have a problem visualizing, but every now and then if it is something intricate, I do. It sure shows everything.

Susan

[Jim Branch]

Susan,
I'm sure you've had your questions answered already, but I just ran across your post and wanted to give you my 2 cents worth. We have been using Eaglepoint Landcadd since Windows 98 days. We used the standalone Eagle Point Graphics Engine. A couple of years ago we were "forced" to pay $150.00 for Bricscad because Eaglepoint's engine would no longer be supported. Bricscad seems to work ok, although there are some commands that are not supported. I was considering upgrading to version 8, but now I think it wouldn't be worth it if it isn't supported.

My boss does all of his drawing by hand! My job is to go to sites and take dimensions and photos and create a base plan for him to draw on. This works quite well for his small firm except when he needs to make design changes per client requests. We have never used the advanced modules that we paid $1200.00 per year for support! We decided to stop the support about 2 years ago because the program as it is is adequate for our needs. I use site planning (mainly building footprint and openings) and sometimes the landscape symbols.

My background is Architecture (I went to school for 7½ years without graduating) and I am often asked to design overhead stuctures (freestanding or attached). I left school in 1984, and I have had to teach myself Autocad.
I have found that designing in 3d is easiest for me. Unfortunately, I am unable to create very good 3d presentations for clients using Eaglepoint and Bricscad. But I still find it the best design tool for me.

You mentioned that you have an old system, but also that you need to do surveying for your projects. It sounds like the scope of your projects is greater than ours. What do you consider an old system? Does Eaglepoint support Vista? I'm sure that our office will eventually move to that platform.
I have been somewhat disappointed with Eaglepoint because we have spent a fortune over the years with them and then the dumped the EPGE for Bricscad. I couldn't tell much difference between the two products.

Thanks for your time.

Jim Branch
Nishimori Landscape & Design, Inc.
Santa Maria, Ca

[schleng]

Hi Jim,
Thanks for your lengthy and informative reply!

Using Eaglepoint the entire time, I went from the Eaglepoint platform to AutoCad 14 to Bricscad.

For my needs, and the cost, Bricscad has been acceptable. It does have a couple of quirky things and sometimes crashes. I assume the crashes (although I may be wrong) has to do with my computer....old meaning going on 5 years.

I won't upgrade Bricscad if it can't be used with Eaglepoint. I think Eaglepoint as a company is not very professional...and greedy. I also stopped the support contract for the modules this year. But I only have two modules, and only paid for support on one. I use Landscape Design and Plant Database.

I'll finally be getting a new computer in the near future. It will be interesting to see how Bricscad will work with it. Eaglepoint is stilll pushing that AutoCad program...AutoCad Maps.

I am pretty sure I will not be moving over to Vista. I will get the same OS I have, which is XP Pro, with an available upgrade to Vista at a later time for free.

So until something better comes along, I'll stay with Eaglepoint and Bricscad.

By the way, have you ever tried Sketchup for your 3D work?

Thanks again for your feedback......Susan

[Jim Branch]

By the way, have you ever tried Sketchup for your 3D work?

No, because it sounds a bit limited for use with the Intuos3 drawing tablet. I'm sure my boss would get more use from a more fully featured graphics program. I'm sure he would want to have color fill and pen sensitivity, etc.
I just need to give him my Autocad (Bricscad) *.dwg files so that he can sketch directly using the pen and tablet.

Jim