[Alberto]

When, in the design phase of a project, a customer requests something stupid or that would just look wrong, do you ever voice concerns, or even pull out of the job (extreme case), or do you just say "We can do it however you want it"? Do you do whatever the customer wants, even if you think its wrong and maybe you wouldn't even want people to know you did the work. Landscaping is subjective of course, but how do you handle it when you think the customer is wrong?

[papercutter]

I tactfully try to steer the customer to the tasteful side of the street. If that doesn't work, I make sure I'm 100% confident that they can pay the bill and what they want will neither kill anyone nor get me sued, and sign the contract. Just like no one lists their three-day stint at Taco Bell on their resume, you don't have to put every job in your portfolio. I've sent plants to Gazing Ball Hell, but the money I got paid spends the same.

I doubt any of us here are at a Frank Lloyd Wright-style "my way or the highway" point in our careers, so we need to recognize that even the clients with bad taste help keep the lights on. And who knows? Maybe something cool works its way into the project, and in a future job you can recycle that idea, polish it up, and make it live up to its potential. No one will ever know!

[Stonehenge]

Nice answer, papercutter. I'll try to steer the client to my way of thinking a few times, but after that, if they still want us to do the work but don't seem to want to take the advice, I just become a yes man. As papercutter said, the money spends the same.

[jshilan]

The architect who designed my home had a great response whenever I would make a suggestion that was less then intelligent.

He would look at me, smile and say "that's one way of doing it". I got the hint pretty quickly.

[jshilan]

I had a client who expressed the same message but in a different way.

He said "if I like it how can it be wrong"? That shut me up too.

[tfld]

Originally Posted by Alberto

When, in the design phase of a project, a customer requests something stupid or that would just look wrong, do you ever voice concerns, or even pull out of the job (extreme case), or do you just say "We can do it however you want it"? Do you do whatever the customer wants, even if you think its wrong and maybe you wouldn't even want people to know you did the work. Landscaping is subjective of course, but how do you handle it when you think the customer is wrong?

I would say, if it's a disagreement based solely on aesthetic differences, YOU may very well be the one with the "wrong solution." I'm not saying you do, just suggesting that if you feel so strongly that what they want is of bad taste or poor judgement, perhaps it would do both of you some good in asking yourself why exactly you don't prefer their approach. I would bet if you sat down and really thought of a good reason(s) why their suggestion doesn't work it would lead you to some hard facts that you can use to defend your point. For example, if they want a big berm with lawn and steel bollards at 4:1 slopes you could categorically dismiss each option by something like; a) it's a maintenance issue, b) it's wasteful of water, c)...?

If they still want it, I agree fully with papercutters response.

Just some thoughts..

-n

[jwholden]

Yes, we can do that. It will (cost an additional $$$ to install)(cost additional $$$ to maintain)(be a safety hazard because)(delay completion of the project by _______)(be a method of installation that I cannot guarantee)(red mulch will draw more attention to the mulch than your gorgeous house and plantings)(while small plants will save you money on the initial investment they will take an additional 3 to 4 years to reach a satisfactory landscape size). Is that how you would like me to proceed?

It's not about you being smarter than your customers or showing them how all knowing and powerful you think you are. It is about you ADVISING them or the advantages and disadvantages of what they would like to do. After the initial get to know you phase of meeting with a new client don't give your EXPERT advice unless you are being paid for it.

Draw a line in the sand and you look like an idiot. Work WITH PEOPLE and you are a hero and your clients tell thier friends how HELPFUL you are.

[nwhardscapes]

I always provide my professional opinion as to the aesthetical appeal and the structural integrity of any project. With structural integrity, it's non-negotiable. With aesthetic appeal, well... sometimes people differ on their ideas as to what would look best, and if that's what you REALLY want - "of course we can do that". We had a customer who wanted a retaining wall built using two different colored blocks in a checkerboard pattern. Hideous! Stood out like a sore thumb, but they were thrilled to pieces with the result. As I took their check, I agreed that the wall looked great. As papercutter said though, that one sure didn't make it into the portfolio.

[agla]

Just about everything in this industry is variable in terms of how much is expected of you, how much isexpected of the consumer, how much you can do, how much you should do, ......

I think it comes down to how you or your employer define your role and the scope of the job.

A maintenance company that is asked to a quick install is most likely neither being asked to evaluate the project, expected to influence it, nor paid to act as a consultant.

When a contractor is called in for a little job that has issues with it, it has to either make sure that it is done right, or get documentation that they are following the homeowner's direction to cover their tails. A common thing is that Joe Homeowner takes on projects that he can't handle and then gets to the point where he needs help. He then looks for a contractor to do the tricky part with the liability after he cut the profit out by buying his own materials and building what he could.

If you are a designer or design/build, you are being hired to take the uncertainty out of the project. You have to advise in order to be affective. Again, there is a sliding scale of how far you take it depending on your business plan or job description and the scope of the job. The more that you can understand and articulate why the idea is not a good one, the more likely you will be able to influence the client.

Sometimes we know we don't like something, but we don't take the time to break it down and completely understand it ourselves. We have to learn to do that in order to be able to explain it to others and get them to understand why something is a good idea or a bad one. A lot of designers like to think they have "an eye" or a "gift" that gives them a magical power to be an "artist". Honestly, the "gift" is understanding and reasoning. Some people have a stronger ability with it in the back of their minds than others, but it is not magic. It is factual analysis and reasoning. The more you can pull that from the back of your mind to front and center, the more you will be able to communicate specific reasons why something is "good" or "bad". When you can get the client to understand the result without telling them "don't do it", it gives them a chance to make that decision on their own. They also learn that you know what your talking about in the process - always a good thing.

The Message:
Understand WHY you want to change their ideas and COMMUNICATE that reasoning in order to get the client to UNDERSTAND and ADOPT your point of view rather than to say no to them. .... at least in the end you can say "I told you so".

[Gensparkie]

I agree so much with the idea that we should present them the reasoning behind why we have a different opinion and let them make the choice. Either they come around and think we are right or they at least clearly know what they are getting into and don't come back at you and complain about it after (we can hope).

I love the way agla put it - pulling that factual analysis and reasoning from the back of the mind to front and center so you can explain things and also impress upon the client that you do have solid reasons and know what you are talking about, even if they do go ahead and make a different decision.

[Alberto]

I had a customer this season who had just moved into a landscaped home and wanted to make major renovations to the landscaping. One of the features was going to be a new statue/waterwall with a long pool. However, they wanted me to landscape it before the water feature was going in. To me, this is just WRONG, and I told them so (in nice terms)! I kept telling them that if the water feature was in I would know what to landscape, or even if the water feature contractor would lay out the feature, I could work with that, but they wanted me to come up with pricing without knowing any of that. So, they came to the nursery and we made a list of plants that they liked, and, though I didn't draw a plan, I put together pricing based on the plants they liked. We didn't get the job, and I don't think it was my fault, and even if we had gotten the job, who knows if they would have been happen or not. To me, this is an example of where the customer is wrong.

[LandArts]

Most of this discussion assumes people are reasonable and can be persuaded with a logical point of view, presented well. Most of the time that is the case. Every now and then we get a customer like Alberto's example. If they aren't thinking logically at the beginning of the process I sure don't want to be around at the end

[Raj Venugopal]

Our clientele is specific. We've noticed over the years that they appreciate clear advice on what looks good, what works and what doesn't. We tell them straight, and they appreciate our advice because they trust us and our reputation. A client who is always right doesn't need us, and should DIY.

We have enough work that we don't design/build anything we can't show off. While money looks and smells the same, my time is precious, and I'd rather earn that dollar doing something I'm proud of. Making money is easy...there are rivers of it floating around from pocket to pocket. What endures, however, is what landscape professionals choose to put in, or on, the ground. We're not in the business of protecting egos, just creating nice landscapes.

[papercutter]

I must be the only one who ever worked straight commission, high-volume sales! If the client wants something designed around a magical, non-existent water feature, you draw an amorphous shape, write "future water feature by others" on it, do the design as best you can, close the sale, and fix it all with a change order prior to install. It sucks, but what are you going to do? That's essentially all you CAN do when designing around a natural water feature, because its final appearance is dictated by what stone you have and how it all goes together. At least this way you've gotten the client invested in a certain look and style, and s/he is clearly comfortable with the number if they've signed a contract.