[tfld]

Dg-

Those renderings look great. The issue I've encountered at large landscape architecture firms is that they primarily outsource any renderings requiring photorealistic detail,which from what I have seen are fewer than the projects requiring more non-photorealism.

At my last job the SD and mainly DD process was so long and drawn out that they purposefully kept renderings lacking detail for an array of reasons.

I gotta run, so I gotta cut myself off...to be continued perhaps..

-n

[tfld]

DG-

Those renderings look great though, and I know work well in alot of applications/project types.

This may be a good time to mention the "cutting edge" landscape architecture design firms and they're graphics..

Hargreaves does alot of 3d...

Hargreaves Associates

Peter Walker Partners builds alot of models and hires Chris Grubbs, a renowned arch illustrator often.

PWP Landscape Architecture

Michael Van Valkenburgh Associates in New York has a very unique graphic style which I've emulated to some degree.

Michael Van Valkenburgh Associates, Inc. | MVVA | Landscape Architects

[Mau]

D.J. - Is that tie enclosed area a Bocce court? How's the housing market in Las Vegas these days?

[deegola]

Originally Posted by Mau

D.J. - Is that tie enclosed area a Bocce court? How's the housing market in Las Vegas these days?

Yes, a Bocce court, good eye! The Las Vegas market is way, way down right now. Only the real high-enders are still pumping. I'm at a small residential company and were unbelievably slow. We get like 1-2 leads a week....down from probbaly 9-10 per week.

Many companies have closed...others have done lots of lay-offs. And, to make things really hard, there are no home-shows until Sept. Usually there's one in June in which we get tons of leads....but not this year.

The only good news is that there are alot of 'great employees' available now...salesguys....foreman...etc that are getting laid off right now.. but you have to be able to hire them.

[DMLD]

I must say that everything I've seen produced and posted here has impressed me greatly. I love the 3D look, just not too sure how it will sell in my area of the So. Cal. desert. I think a design drawing should reflect a certain quality and the one's posted here certainly do.

[jshilan]

Originally Posted by dan deutekom

As a guy that ends up translating all these neat drawings into reality I have to say that Jody's drawing is the easiest to work from and figure out pricing. .

With drawings like Jody's a lot of things are left to the imagination and the little details and materials arn't so precisely rendered making it much easier to build..

Thanks Dan. Your post is 100 percent on target. It has taken me years to figure out how to create a plan tha sells the project, is estimateable and leaves the contractor some room to not get jammed up during production.

[jshilan]

Originally Posted by tfld

t.

Mike Lins graphics are pretty dated, but I suppose that's just personal preference for our purposes. On larger projects, that old school graphic may kill the project.

Otherwise, alot of development drawings are done to convince our own engineers that what we're doing is for a reason .

It's refreshing to know that arrogance is still being taught in the LA programs. I was worried that it was becoming outdated as well. Please feel free to post some "real work" along with your fantasyscapes. I would post my solution for the 1982 Olympic Stadium or my Vietnam Memorial Design but unfortunately they were studio projects. I can, however, post the two amphitheaters that I designed and built,the mixed use development that I created all of the open spaces for, or the 10's of millions of dollars in residential work my "old school graphics" didn't kill. Actually though, what I really think would be of value to you is to see the horrendous, poorly conceived, and unfortunately executed designs of professional LA firms that hide their lack of talent and experience in finely drawn and physically impossible autocad plans. Luckily, the residential design build environment that I work in doesn't need to prove it's worthiness to another department and I certainly don't get bogged down in design development. I lay it out, we get our permits and then everyone does their job. Decisions are made in the field and things get done and get done very well. I guess if you enjoy the exercise of designing projects for designs sake then working for a multi-disciplenary firm is the way to go. You can enter lot's of design competitions and the computer rendered plans look great mounted on your office wall. I'll stick with designing and building things, that look great, drain well and use plant material that really exists.

[dan deutekom]

Ohhhh Jody

To be young and thinking that old fartism is a disease you will never catch. One day experience and age catches up to us all

[jshilan]

Dan, did you hear that the ASLA is having a design competition for a new "Ivory Tower". The only problem they're having is that no one wants to design it, they just want to critique it.

I gotta run, the:Harvard School of Design is on the other line, they have a question about paver installation.

[tfld]

Originally Posted by jshilan

It's refreshing to know that arrogance is still being taught in the LA programs. I was worried that it was becoming outdated as well. Please feel free to post some "real work" along with your fantasyscapes. I would post my solution for the 1982 Olympic Stadium or my Vietnam Memorial Design but unfortunately they were studio projects. I can, however, post the two amphitheaters that I designed and built,the mixed use development that I created all of the open spaces for, or the 10's of millions of dollars in residential work my "old school graphics" didn't kill. Actually though, what I really think would be of value to you is to see the horrendous, poorly conceived, and unfortunately executed designs of professional LA firms that hide their lack of talent and experience in finely drawn and physically impossible autocad plans. Luckily, the residential design build environment that I work in doesn't need to prove it's worthiness to another department and I certainly don't get bogged down in design development. I lay it out, we get our permits and then everyone does their job. Decisions are made in the field and things get done and get done very well. I guess if you enjoy the exercise of designing projects for designs sake then working for a multi-disciplenary firm is the way to go. You can enter lot's of design competitions and the computer rendered plans look great mounted on your office wall. I'll stick with designing and building things, that look great, drain well and use plant material that really exists.

Uhh..If you think you can get away with designing "fantasy-scapes" in a multi-disciplinary firm, you're obviously talking out your @$$. I work on real projects with real civil engineers who don't work well in fantasy because it doesn't drain.

I'm not going to drop a bunch of insults here, because that would be too easy. I never intended to offend you with my comment, just a fact for some, doesn't necessarily have to pertain to you specifically.

I'll try to reiterate--

Bad graphics kill projects in some cases. I'm not necessarily saying you have to do the latest 3d computer modeling, blah, blah graphics to win competitions, but matching the right image to the right project is probably important in a competition setting. For instance, you mentioned the vietnam veterans memorial. Many of us probably know the winning entry was designed by Maya Lin, not you. Maya Lin was a student, as you were, when she won the Vietnam Memorial Competition. Her concept was built, and I'm pretty sure it drains, and has real plants If you look at Maya Lins entry it was simple and I would venture to guess the sole purpose her entry won was her pastel-rendered graphic. It just worked. I'm sure plenty of Mike Lin-style graphics were passed up. Now, I'm not necessarily saying Mike Lins graphics alone are bad, just that I don't agree with the idea of everyone and every project having the same style.

Every project I've worked on (yes, while still in school, both residential private and public) I've used a different graphic technique. Perhaps I don't know how to build evrything yet, but give me a little time. As far as the "fantasy-scapes" comment goes...damn right.

[tfld]

Originally Posted by jshilan

Dan, did you hear that the ASLA is having a design competition for a new "Ivory Tower". The only problem they're having is that no one wants to design it, they just want to critique it.

I gotta run, the:Harvard School of Design is on the other line, they have a question about paver installation.

Hey Jody,

Did you hear that ALCA was hosting a tree-planting competition? Trouble is, no one showed up.

[papercutter]

the right image to the right project... ok, knowing that I'm as neutral as Switzerland here, just asking: do you feel that it's hard to develop your own style in a big firm? I know I interviewed at a small one (three offices in two states) and they were huge on standardized graphics, and not being able to tell which office a given drawing came from. I don't know, man... I'm a huge Ralph Rapson fan, and I just don't feel like the joie de vivre that emanates from his drawings would make it in a big firm.

Holy crap, I used the phrase joie de vivre. I'm going to bed.

[tfld]

Originally Posted by papercutter

the right image to the right project... ok, knowing that I'm as neutral as Switzerland here, just asking: do you feel that it's hard to develop your own style in a big firm? I know I interviewed at a small one (three offices in two states) and they were huge on standardized graphics, and not being able to tell which office a given drawing came from. I don't know, man... I'm a huge Ralph Rapson fan, and I just don't feel like the joie de vivre that emanates from his drawings would make it in a big firm.

Holy crap, I used the phrase joie de vivre. I'm going to bed.

Absolutely not. I've been able to experiment plenty and feel like it's been encouraged. All of EDAW's offices have unique graphic styles. This is probably getting way off topic now though. For residential design I'd say whatever works for you and communicates the intent clearly to the client works best.

[papercutter]

That's cool. Like I said, the office I interviewed at seemed pretty adamant about it, and a lot of the drawings I've seen in the last few years as our town does urban planning studies, new civic buildings, etc., have had the same New Architectural Rendering look about them. Which, I kind of like being a one-man band for that reason. If I want to try fingerpaints on wax paper, I can, although it sounds like you have much more latitude than I would've thought.

And the internet encourages tangents and digression!

[jshilan]

Originally Posted by tfld

Hey Jody,

Did you hear that ALCA was hosting a tree-planting competition? Trouble is, no one showed up.

OK Nick you sure got me on that one ???.

Here's the deal - this post has been a discussion of various rendering styles that people are using, both hand drawn and computer generated. How people charge and what they include in their fees. There has been some beautiful work posted and some very informative discussions on the subject. The reason this banter has become part of this post is due to the insulting nature of your comments and opinions (and we all know what they say about opinions).