[PLC-Landscape]

Is it possible to have a profitable design only business? I really want to find a way to make a decent living ($80,000+) doing design work while not working for another company.

I currently have a small lawn and landscape company, but I'm just not making the money I need to. With taxes, insurance, gas, rent, competition, etc. - The driving force (money for me) isn't there.

In my mind, if there's a way to get design work, it's a much simpler process. By that I mean, no rent, no dump truck, no truck insurance, less gas, and much less equipment. I'd basically be trading my weed-wacker for a computer tablet. I like meeting and talking with clients, I don't like getting dirty, but I love nature and plants. I can sit at the computer for hours doing designs with no problem, I used to be a graphic artist.

I'm racking my brains trying to figure out how to make it as a freelance designer before taking the plunge. Everything I read seems to lead in the direction of it not really being possible, but I'm stubborn.....

Does anyone do design only and make a decent ($80,000+) living? That's the number I'm shooting for to cover cost of living - anything less I'd just as soon go back to working for someone else, but I don't want that either.

Opinions please.....

[agla]

It is a lot of people's dream job.

The hard part is that you have to position yourself to get the work. Think about it like this. You need to be contacted by, write proposals for, and land design jobs that other people are also trying to get. You already knew that. But, did you ever look at it this way?

You need to land either 80 $1,000 design jobs, or 40 $2,000 jobs, or 160 $1,000 jobs, or 20 $4,000 jobs .... Producing the work is the easy part. Selling the work is easy unless there is one person that has just any slight edge over you. Getting 40 design job leads a year is hard for anyone to get at any price, let alone at $2k a pop.

Another hard thing for you to overcome is that when a potential client is choosing between you and a guy who will design and build it, if all else is equal, he'll take the guy who can build it over you every time. That means that you need to have some other kind of edge that will overcome that.

The hardest thing to is getting the leads. Particularly getting the right leads. Every landscaper, designer, and would be designer can and does advertise, lists in the yellow pages, and has a website. Why are 40 people a year going to come to you and pay you $2k for a plan? They have to be coming to you because you can't find them fast enough to sustain an $80k gross by looking for them.

I do not think either you or I can just draw plans and gross $80k. You have to oversee construction and make money on project management. You have to be worth it in order to get that kind of work. It adds 10-20% to the client and gives a contractor fits to be managed - uphill battle.

I don't mean to be negative. I'm just trying to be bluntly realistic. It can be done, but it is not as easy as meeting clients and drawing plans.

[Fine Edge]

Well...........
I honestly believe that all designers need to have experience in all phases of the design process in order to draw a truly functional design.
What will you be designing and will it work?
Do you have any hands - on experience with the things you will be designing?
Are you versed in all types of drainage applications?

The one thing you DON'T want to do is to draw a design. sell it to the client for them to find the contractors & then have them come back to you because this won't work, that won't work, etc...
I guess it all depends on your experience in certain aspects of the landscape field.
I just know that in order to make $80,000 a year just doing designs, you better know everything.

[PLC-Landscape]

There is no negative or positives here.....it just 'is'. That's what I'm trying to figure out. What I should do based on real-life experiences.

I've been in the field of construction for 12 years, landscape construction for 6+ give or take, and have a degree in landscape design and management. I owned a small company for 3 yrs, then was offered a position with a large company as a production supervisor. That didn't work out, so I went back out on my own, it'll be 4 years this spring, and I really want to go in a different direction. Having worked for a large company, I was in touch with how much the designer made (with commission) - and it was an attractive amount. - but he was part of a much larger operation.

Example, several years ago I enrolled in an AutoCadd class, and the instructor said she did all the plans for 2 decent sized landscape companies. Between the two of them, she was doing a couple a week (I don't know the exact number) - but at $700.00 a pop, that's decent pocket change. They'd give her the info, she'd do a drive by with a camera, and draw up the plan. Very straightforward. I liked that.

As agla said, many clients want the designer/installer combo. That wouldn't be an issue, I could set it up from start to finish, I have reliable contacts to do the installs, I was more asking IF anyone does it. If I know of people that already are successful, it mentally prepares and motivates me. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like common practice. I like to weigh the pros and cons before making a career change......

[agla]

If you are talking about design and using your contacts so that you handle getting the project built, there are tons of people doing that and making over $80k. It is what most one person landscape architect offices do and good high end landscape designers.. As long as you can compete with them in terms of getting their work, it can be done.

How will you take their work from them? When you know that answer, you'll be all set.

[PLC-Landscape]

Hmmmmm, how will I take the work from them?

Any suggestions?....lol

I have a vision of what I want. It's not something that hasn't been done before, but it is something that's not done a lot. I'm very interested in the aesthetics of a landscape, proper plant selection, seamless combinations of hardscape and softscape, garden structures, little details often overlooked. I'm thinking that's a slight advantage.

Hopefully effective marketing and advertising showcasing my philosophy and lots of images will help. Not only educating the client, but having clients eventually select me because of what I do, because I pay attention to details, because I can properly incorporate a pergola into the property design, because they know that they'll be getting a quality job with my services. Building momentum and letting one job roll into another...hopefully

Aside from constantly flooding the area with my name, I don't really know how to capture additional work.....But I do feel better knowing that what I'm considering is not out of the question.

[Chris Heiler]

Is it possible to have a profitable design only business?

I believe so, though I'll stop short of saying $80,000 per year is typical or realistic. First off, lets make one thing very clear. In order to operate a "design only" business and make 80K, you better have superior design knowledge and skills (see the post by Fine Edge). How else could you possiibly compete against the people doing free design work? You better be A LOT better than these people; and the others that do charge.

Second, it's all about your hourly fee and your billable hours. Say you charge $100 per hour and you average 20 billable hours per week. Over 50 weeks thats $100,000.

Third, a lot will depend on the type of projects you work on. Like AGLA said, you can design 80 projects for $1,000 or 40 for $2,000. I wouldn't recommend this. How about designing only 10 projects a year at $8,000 each in design fees? What type of projects bring in this fee? Very high-end residential can as well as public and commercial projects. These are projects that typically require conceptual plans (sometimes multiple), color and perspective renderings, well-conceived planting plans and full sets of construction drawings including written specifications. Going from Conceptual stage thru construction documentation is a TON of billable design hours. Also with these higher end projects, other design professionals are needed such as civil and structural engineers. You can hire them as sub-consultants and get a mark up on their fees.

It all comes down to how talented of a designer you are. If you are just average then you can't charge $100 per hour and people won't hire you for the larger more extensive design projects where there is money to be made.

[TrickyDick]

I have known plenty of people that do it and make excellent money, and work with several regularly...both LA's and Designers. They all have a lot in common. They work in high-end markets and they are involved in projects from start to finish. NONE of them are making that kind of money doing $1000 designs. I will say this though... I think it has a lot less to do with how talented a designer you are and more to do with the relationships that you have or can establish. Are you in with the money crowd? They won't look in the yellow pages but they will ask thier friends and they will remember the designer they met at so and so's dinner party. How many high-end builders and architects can you get to refer you to clients? Those are the places that you can get reliable leads in the markets where you can make money and once you are established in those markets it will be a lot easier to stay there. I'm sure you could start from zero and work your way up by doing great work...but it would take time.

[agla]

The thing that most people who are not already in it don't understand that you can't get high end work just because you want it. You won't get it because you have a great work ethic and philosophy, or pay attention to details. Those all come in handy when you get the work. It does not bring work to you. Anyone can advertise and say all of the right things - and they do. It does not bring you to the front of the line.

One big difference between construction projects that have multi-thousand dollar landscape design budgets and the rest is that the landscape design is often done long before the project is visible (while the architect is still working on the building plans and sometimes the civil engineer is working on the site plan). The architect has the most influence on the project both in terms of design AND bringing in the engineers, landscape designers, and contractors. The property owner typically turns the project over to the architect to present him with options to decide on. It is pretty difficult to bypass the architect.

So, you think, "I'll dazzle the architect with my great potential to improve his project". The problem is that the architect already has people who he has worked with. He knows their strengths and weaknesses, what he has to watch with them, and knows what he has to do in terms of managing the outcome of HIS project. A new person adds uncertainty, so trying a new person out is not usually going to happen. It is not just you who is trying to get the architect to try out an unfamiliar designer. There are tons of people who want to do what you want to do. The architect can see your beautiful work - he sees his regular guys' beautiful work as well and all the guys like you who want the work. He sees you and the other guys like you who seem to know their stuff and are nice, but he has guys who he already truly knows. In other words, you are essentially asking the architect to take a risk that he has no need of taking. This is what I meant by you having to take the work away from others.

Take note that a homeowner is a one shot client while an architect is a continuous job source.

Obviously, people get there and do the work. When a door cracks opens to let a different landscape designer in, what will put someone to the front of the line? The guy who has the most factors that take uncertainty away from the person doing the hiring. That can be any combination of degrees, licenses, design portfolio, built work portfolio, personal familiarity, resume, how fast you can turn over the work, ... whatever combination of these that makes the individual selecting the designer more certain that he will be better than the next guy on the list. A short coming in any of these areas can be made up with greater strengths somewhere else as long as the result brings more certainty of the outcome over that of the next guy. ONLY if there is not one other person that fills that criteria better than you will you get the work. Potential gets you nothing.

[saslandscape]

It seems that there are more and more people expecting "free designs" as the years progress. The best thing to do to make sure you're getting a constant inflow of work, is to work with other landscape companies where a) they are either having you work with the client and having the client pay you directly, or b) you charge the landscape company $x/hr for the designs you do for them. I do it both ways with several companies and take on my own clients when they come, which makes sure I have enough work to do for the year. Hope that helps.

[saslandscape]

"How about designing only 10 projects a year at $8,000 each in design fees? What type of projects bring in this fee? Very high-end residential can as well as public and commercial projects. These are projects that typically require conceptual plans (sometimes multiple), color and perspective renderings, well-conceived planting plans and full sets of construction drawings including written specifications. Going from Conceptual stage thru construction documentation is a TON of billable design hours. Also with these higher end projects, other design professionals are needed such as civil and structural engineers."

These projects are usually given to registered Landscape Architects who have seals for all of their documents. AGLA will probably agree with me on this one (since he is one). This is one of the many reasons why I my goal is to take the L.A.R.E. and become registered by next year

[Chris Heiler]

TrickyDick made a great point. Having the right contacts is probably more important than having the design talent.

I also agree with AGLA- having relationships with architects is key. I've gone this route since starting my design firm. I do NO work for builders and I don't market to them one bit. Like AGLA said, it is difficult to earn a referral from an architect who already has working relationships with other design professionals. In my opinion, you need to offer the architects something different than the other LA/designers they are working with. For example, my projects are mostly formal, classicaly-inspired gardens. This is my niche. This is how I position myself with the architects in my area. The architects don't refer me to all of their clients, but when they are designing a home that suits my expertise and skill set, they refer me.

[TrickyDick]

A good point about builders. We don't work FOR builders either with maybe one exception. Most everytime we have worked closely with builders they have done nothing but try to manipulate us and screw us and it is absolutely not worth the trouble. On the other hand I have one good relationship with a builder that has been great both for referrals and as a source of info for carpentry, plumbing and other stuff I know nothing about. I also know at least one pretty succesful LA who got thier start and has continued to get a lot of work annually for a long time from one high-end builder. They are definately to be dealt with cautiously but a good relationship with a good one can be a huge asset. Architects are probably the people most trusted by the client so they are obviously hugely valuable.

This may be more true here than in other places, as there is a pretty high pretentiousness value, but it seems that most folks don't know any better and consistently hire some of the worst designers for some of the biggest projects. It is not unlike the art world where there is an assumption that if it's expensive and everyone else is doing it then it must be good.

I think that talent and hard work can get you a living but it might not be a great one. Luck, business and sales savvy or even blind, naive hubris can get you contacts and contacts are 90% of the game.

[jshilan]

I say go for the 1 design at 80k and call it a year .

[GLAN]

I know a guy who is design/install only.....been doing that ever since he started.

Granted he started out of the family nursery......marketed to high end clients.

And he can thank me for realizing that he needed to pay more attention to detail.....What I call the icing........flowers, color, smell.

He'll also do maintenance.........not lawns.........the landscape that he installs.

He's doing well for himself....but as I said....he started out of his families nursery.




However.......



I remember the early 90's........after Desert Storm....and Clinton down sized the military.
Oh boy did the Island get hit bad with a recession..........Design/installers were going out of business left and right