[mrusk]

Turns out i am very good at design work.

I go up against LA's with 20 years experience all the time and come up with a much better plan. There has no been a job this year where i did a design, where the compeititon has come up with a better plan.

Now i have this other landscaper who does happen to work sort of in my market. He wants to sub contract all his designs to me. Now this could make me some $. I just do not know if this would be the best business move for me.

I think my designs are different than 90% of the designs i have seen. I feel if i do designs for other landscapers i will just be helping them build their business.


What do you guys think?

[Stonehenge]

Where are you making more money - design work or installation?

How much time does design work take up in your typical day? Is there room for more design work?

[mrusk]

I make my money off of the installs currently. But i know the main reason i signed some of the jobs i signed was because of my design.

Now i could fit more designs into my schudule, i just do not want to help someone else build there business.

[greenxander]

Do you currently do design/build (and have an overhead of one)? If you do, doing design work for others might be a distraction that might undermine your own business to a degree that is not compensated by the extra $$$.

On the other hand, if you think you might want to focus on more design work and collaborate with this contractor, it would seem to me that building his business would also be helpful for building your business.

[Lanelle]

I think that if your designs are creating your 'brand', that you'd be weakening (destroying) the very thing that is your ticket to success.
The ability to create a brand is very important in today's marketplace. Concentrate on your own business!
If people want what you do, let them hire you. Maybe start marketing 'designs with a difference' with photos to get the word out.
Why would you want to drive down the road and see someone else's interpretation of your design, which won't be totally true to your vision and doesn't advance your company?

[agla]

I see two major things that are very important in where the money is.

The obvious one is that the install is where the labor and material mark up is which is the fat that feeds most everything else.

The second one is the origin of the work. He who consistantly gets the leads that turn into install jobs is a money source whether they are builders, architects, landscape architects, designers, landscapers, nurseries, or garden centers. If they are at the beginning of the pipe line they are, or can be, very influential in how that money gets dispersed.

Doing design work for other contractors does not get you install work. Doing design work for other contractors does not put you at the front of the pipeline for controlling the project. That does not mean that it can't benefit you. It only means that it is not a position that carries a lot of power of financial weight.

It is an opportunity to develop your design skills and portfolio for future benefit and may even pay pretty good. Greexander brought up an excellent point about whether doing this will displace you from other more profitable jobs.

As with anything, you have to weigh the situation based on everything else going on with you and place a value on it vs. those other things.

Another benefit, depending on how they work with you, can be that you will gain a lot of insight on how they do things. This can be directly related to design and construction, but it also can be that you will learn other ways to run an office, other sources for materials, ... just other things or other ways than that which you already know. I certainly learned way more about other things, especially office things, than I did about design while working for others.

A lot of us started out in our own business early. Usually with only the exposure to construction and that is usually limited to one or two sources. Once we started, we ran it pretty much in a vacuum. Your competition would not help you out with running it, nor would you dream of asking. Then we tend to assume we do everything right because we don't know any other way. Working for others in an office situation is a huge experience that is very hard to get.

If these contractors are small timers who are not consistantly getting jobs that are higher than you consistantly get, there is considerably less benefit. But, if they do get better jobs, you have to realize that it is much easier to get in their elevator and step of at their floor level (with enough experience) than it is to start at the first floor and take the stairs especially if you are young.

That probably seemed random and off target, but it makes perfect sense to me.

[Stonehenge]

Nope. Seemed right on to me. I think the thoughts about fearing that your designs in other's hands will undermine your business are secondary to other concerns, concerns others have been laid out well here.

[secondnature]

Hi Lanelle,

I have posted some questions recently that I have about the designer/installer relationship. What you have mentioned here about creating your brand is so true, and I am feeling like this brand can get lost if the installer hired does not follow the plan that you have created! This brand is what makes you stand out in the crowd, a signature of sorts! It is what you can provide above and beyond anyone else.

Just had to comment,

Originally posted by Lanelle
I think that if your designs are creating your 'brand', that you'd be weakening (destroying) the very thing that is your ticket to success.
The ability to create a brand is very important in today's marketplace. Concentrate on your own business!
If people want what you do, let them hire you. Maybe start marketing 'designs with a difference' with photos to get the word out.
Why would you want to drive down the road and see someone else's interpretation of your design, which won't be totally true to your vision and doesn't advance your company?

[Mark Oomkes]

Just curious, mrusk, but you're designing plants for NJ but you don't even know what USDA Zone you are in?

[AZTLANLC]

I'm confused here one day he says an LA does all his designs cause he has not education in landscaping neither the desire to go back to school and learn, now he claims he designs better than anyone around.
Is this the same person posting or just 2 different people with the same screen name.
Please Jeff don't let this forum become like some other.
And good observation Mark on the USDA lol.
Just like judge judy says it if you tell the truth you don't need to have a good memory.

[Lanelle]

Look at the dates of these various threads. I think you'll find that this boast came before the revelation that he's using an LA. Talk about confusing.....

[mrusk]

Before i go any furthur with this thread let me post a pic to show that i do infact have enough excavation to allow for 6 feet of grid in my wall!!!

[mrusk]

I do not use a LA for every part of every project! I always use the LA for plantings and for front landscapes. Some reason i can not design fronts.

But give me a backyard that needs a pool, deck, patio, etc and i shine.

[mrusk]

..........plants are just there to make it look alive.... these are not the acctual plants that will be planted..

[mrusk]

That job is getting built first thing spring 08.

Lots of times i design something, then i send it to the LA and he just drafts it.