[Belisarius]

Hi, All.........

I am looking for the unabashedly best biased opinions of everyone for a design software program that would let me give:

1. A hand-rendered look to my printed drawings.
2. Immediate take-offs of both plant materials AND hardscapes.
3. AND, the ability to offer 3-D perspectives and, hopefully (dare I say it) 3-D walk-throughs..............

Is it really so much to ask for?....................

[Stonehenge]

Unless you're drawing in 3D, it'd be pretty hard for any software to accurately manufacture the third dimension of a drawing. As for the ability to switch between 2d, 3d and walk-throughs - yeah. That's asking for a lot. Try Google's sketchup lite for a free 3d-rendering program, and see how as the design complexity increases, your system bogs down. Add in all the other things you'd like in there, and you'd better have the computing power of a Cray to run that software.

Maybe someday, but I don't think you can get that in one package today.

Side note - many video games these days have websites to help support them, and on those sites you can download 3d graphics engines and software to help you create walk-through functionality like a video game. There are no plant libraries, and you may have to do the walk-through using a character wearing fatigues and an automatic weapon, but it's possible.

[PSUscaper]

The word 'immediate' is not what I would call a good choice.

For softscaping, yes, you can prettty much get a immediate takoff. But, keep in mind that nothing is 'easy'. You pretty much have to enter all the data in, and then, as you draw, have to follow certain procedures.

As for hardscapes take-off, your going to find that it requires a lot of data input along with a alot of time spent making it put out the right data you want.

I've seen pretty good take-off with softscaping, but have always felt there was a lot to be desired with the hardscaping. Sure, the program will do it, but it seems like the time spent is just about the same as doing it the old fashion way. The programs are good for take take-off info such as areas and distances, but as for drawing a patio, and then having it miraculously put a price together for it....not really going to happen.

People are really confused as to what programs actually do. Don't believe all the press these companies put out about how much time their program is going to save you or how it can easily do estimates. I've yet to see one that isn't a PITA. Also, keep in mind, if you really are going to be serious, you almost have to hire a dedicated person just to run the program for you. I know very few contractors who can find the time to sit, learn, and operate a program effectively and still do all the other stuff the job requires.

[agla]

I'd second PSU's take on it and add this. The effort put into doing all of that is not going to be easy to recover in design fees and still get a good amount of design work.

I used to use EaglePoint Landcadd, but found that it took more time to input things in order to use those take off features than it did to simply count the plants and check them off with a red pen. Most cad programs will give you area takeoffs very easily for things like hardscapes, lawn areas, and things like that. Going through the drawing and marking of counted items also forces one to scrutinize the drawing very closely and is when a lot of drafting errors are discovered. Relying on automated takeoffs can have problems as well (sometimes plant symbols are accidentally double drafted or are flawed and not counted).

Good 3d design can be done, but as PSU said, it is all done with a lot of user input and it all starts with topography. That is both existing and proposed topography which is not something that most design/build contractors staff is going to have mastered in cad even if you do spend for the program and tight land survey work. An individual with that level of sophistication in cad will have already worked in a fairly elite design firm and almost certainly would not be attracted to working in an environment where those opportunities would be limited. That person would command a pretty high salary which would make design a very high ticket proposition. Certainly, that type of design office exists, but they are very specialized. Replacing such a person should (s)he move on could be extremely difficult.

My opinion is that it makes sense for a design/build contractor to be able to produce an effective plan in a cost efficient manner.The reason why is simply that it is easier to sell the plan and that the company that designs the plan generally has an extremely high closing rate for the sale of the installation of that plan - even if others bid on it. A program that has a quick learning curve or one that is used widely enough that there are previously trained users that can be hired is the way to go.

Another negative about realistic looking graphics is that the less abstract they are, the higher your responsibility to accurately duplicate that in the field becomes. Anything short of what is shown in that fly through design would be strong evidence for a disgruntled client to win a law suit. The same design shown only in a plan view with plant symbols and a plant list would be in your favor as long as those plants matched the description on the plan.

Sometimes more is more and sometimes more is less.

[Fine Edge]

Ditto the above sentiments,
Just give me my pencil & scale ruler and let me go.
I change my designs so much as I'm drawing that it's much easier for me to revise as needed.

I would like to see a 3-D walkthrough with the designer dressed in fatigues and a machine gun, however.
It may help to scare the client into signing the contract.

[askme233]

Just a homeowner here, but I was curious to see if anyone had any specific spftware suggestions to the initial request?

I have just spent time using 4 different leading programs and I am shocked at how bad they are. As mentioned above, all of the game engines allow much more complex design with more advanced tools and create much more photo realistic renderings. And they have to handle real physics.

I am not doing estimates etc. (leave that to the pro's) but need a good way to visualize and communicate (e.g. with wife) about what things might look like.

So far Realtime's tools look the best, but I find it odd that I see no mention of them anywhere else.

Do you or your client's not use visualizing tools to see/demonstrate the end result?

[agla]

I like to think of myself as a tool. Many people that know me think I'm a tool as well, I suppose. But what I really mean is that there are more ways than just photoimaging that can communicate and the most overlooked part of the software revolution is that catchy phrase "garbage in = garbage out". In order to create a realistic photo, you have to know that the things in it actually do fit and will look like the photo. The problem is that people use it in the reverse believing that if it is in the photo, it can fit and will work.

Do you honestly believe that you as a homeowner after going through selecting software, learning it, and making plans with it are ever going to hire a designer? I don't think so.

[sdinenno]

Originally posted by Belisarius
Hi, All.........

I am looking for the unabashedly best biased opinions of everyone for a design software program that would let me give:

1. A hand-rendered look to my printed drawings.
2. Immediate take-offs of both plant materials AND hardscapes.
3. AND, the ability to offer 3-D perspectives and, hopefully (dare I say it) 3-D walk-throughs..............

Is it really so much to ask for?....................

If you like the look of the things on this page, then go for the Realtime Landscaping PRO software by Idea Spectrum. It will do everything you mentioned above, although the plans don't really look hand-rendered and don't pretend to be. It's only $100 and it will do things that software ten or twenty times the price won't do.

[sdinenno]

Originally posted by Stonehenge
Unless you're drawing in 3D, it'd be pretty hard for any software to accurately manufacture the third dimension of a drawing. As for the ability to switch between 2d, 3d and walk-throughs - yeah. That's asking for a lot.

The Idea Spectrum software does exactly that.

While you are designing with the software, there are always three tabs at the bottom of the page. One says "top-down" (2D), the next one says "perspective" (3D), and the last one says "walkthrough" (3D). You just click on a tab and it takes you to that view. You can design in the top-down or perspective views and whatever changes you make in 2D shows up in 3D (and vice versa). Then you just click on the walkthrough tab and a few seconds later you are walking around in the landscape like in a video game.

I know I sound like a salesman for Idea Spectrum but I don't work for them. I just think it's excellent software, especially for the price.

[deegola]

I really wish there was a worthy 'all-in-one' so I'll just list out what I use:

1 - File Maker Pro (Tracks all leads effortlessly and takes leads from my website database - easy to use)

2 - Excel (Breakdowns and can interact w/Filemaker - easy to use)

3 - AutoCAD 2004 (Oldie but goodie, stay away from LT as it has no 3d features - easy if you just read the book)

4 - Paintshop Pro X (Cheap, $100 photoshop clone, does everything fast and easy, plus features easy to make colored plans, links directly to cad - gets easy the more you use it)

5 - 3DS Max (Complete unnessecary for 2d plans, but usefull for any type of 3d work - warning, BIG learning curve)

DJ Delten

[dclark2037]

Has anyone ever tried PRO Landscape by Draffix. I recently purchased it and am suprised at how easy it has been to learn. Take a look at it. it does 3-d ,movies, proposal,etc... Kinda of pricey at 1395.00.

[AZTLANLC]

I also got ideas spectrum software just 2 weeks ago and for the price that is some serious program, you can work on it in 2d or 3d, make a movie of the final design, use sketchup 3d models.
this is a design for a job I'll be doing next month.

[Squizzy Taylor]

1. A hand-rendered look to my printed drawings.
2. Immediate take-offs of both plant materials AND hardscapes.
3. AND, the ability to offer 3-D perspectives

Sounds like your looking for Chip Foose

[sdinenno]

Originally posted by AZTLANLC
I also got ideas spectrum software just 2 weeks ago and for the price that is some serious program, you can work on it in 2d or 3d, make a movie of the final design, use sketchup 3d models.
this is a design for a job I'll be doing next month.

It's amazing what you can do with the Idea Spectrum software. It's a steal at $100.

[AZTLANLC]

Yes and thank you for referring me to them