[John Palasek]

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I need help deciding on design software!

I'm sure that this has been hashed out before, but as I have searched this site, I can't seem to find the type of comparison I'm in search of.

Basically, I'm trying to decide between, Dynascape, LSI and Pro Landscape software.

I'm currently using Designware, (Design Imaging Group), which has a very good imaging ability, but it's CAD-based 2d design program leaves much to be desired. I can get by OK, but I'm tired of "making the best of" basically primitive software.

The way I see it now is simply based on what I've managed to glean from this site and what I've read about each company's software:

Dynascape:

Nice presentation, nice features, good interactive qualities, (the ability to derive quotes from 2d, 3d, etc.. The downside is first the price and then the subscription fee which I think is a bit much in more ways than one.

LSI:

Seems like an upgrade version of Planscape and seems a bit too complex for simple tasks. I only have the trial version of it, and many symbols are not available, so it's hard to make an informed decision. Price is cheap, (maybe too cheap for a quality program?).

Pro Landscape:

Mid-range price and they now seem to offer all the necessary "bells and whistles", (scaling a site plan, paper sizes, etc.). I have yet to recieve my "Free Demo DVD" from them. I'd rather have an actual program I could play with, but I guess a marketing DVD is better than nothing. They claim free tech support, but are they really "there" for you?

So, of the three mentioned, who uses or has used them? What did you like? What did you NOT like? What would you recommend?


Thanks in advance!


-JP





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[Inspired]

Couple questions.
What type of design work do you do? Residential / Commercial.
Who are your customers? Are they home owners only?
Will you be submitting your work (drawings) to any city planning offices for permits?

[John Palasek]

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First of all, I'm Design/Build.

I'm a small company with few year-round employees. I work in the field with all my jobs, (like it that way) and I rarely subcontract work.


Residential only.
Customers are homeowners.
Will not be submitting plans to municipalities except on occasions where engineering/permits are involved, (new decks, certain walls, etc.).

What I need is something that can provide two things:

1. The ability to create a plot plan to any scale while still providing a good imaging format and an ability to develop estimates/proposals from either.

2. The detail and presentation to allow me, (if I so choose), to offer design work only in the future.

I would like to eventually ease out of field work and perhaps dissolve the install aspects of my business and work solely as a designer. If I go this route, I'd like a software base which would allow for such a thing without having to start over from a software standpoint.

I used to do a lot of hand-drawn stuff, (which I still prefer over CAD), but I don't have the time for it now. The software I currently use is adequate, from a "stone knives and bearskins" point of view, but it offers no upgrade potential nor are there any later versions of it.

I like the options of "pastels, watercolors, photo-realistic or straight CAD" presentation modes offered with many new products as each job is different and it sometimes helps in sales if a presentation mode can be altered.


So, what can you suggest?




-JP





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[deegola]

My 1st choice is easy. Basic AutoCAD LT (around $700) with Paint Shop Pro for the color ups (around $89).

If you want to go even cheaper, you can get generic cad programs for under $100....and then still do you color ups in Paint Shop Pro.

Exmaples of the results can be seen on my gallery. http://www.djdelten.com

Good luck!

DJ

[Inspired]

Ok, John. I’ll give you the long version of what DJ just said.

I used to be a design/build contractor as well. I used to hand render everything and I'm not that good at it. I decided to get into some sort of CAD program and immediately freaked when I saw the price tags. The early 90's full on versions of AutoCAD and RainCAD and one other I can't remember the name of, were like 2,500 - 5,500.

I decided to go with Dynascape because it looked good, it had a tutorial and a bid program AND it cost a heck of a lot less. However, the bid program (IRIS) never worked, the plant database was pretty much useless for this climate, but the program got me started in CAD and has been a good performer. I was able to produce some very nice drawings very soon after buying it and my customers seemed to appreciate the clean professional look.

Everything was great till I noticed my drawings weren't really scaled. None of the print or blueprint houses here can read a Dynascape file, so I had to convert them to a tif, jpeg, or psd (Photoshop) format. Unfortunately the scale would be slightly changed in the conversion process and the prints would be skewed or just plain out of scale.

I ended up buying my own printer - 1,000. to 1,400.

Everything was great. I had my program working. I could print all my drawings myself anytime and I could even take them to Kinko's at the last minute if I had to for copies.

Then I took on some commercial work and I found out that nobody else used Dynascape around here but me. I found that the cities here had site plans and plot plans in AutoCAD from previous permit submittals that I could have for free to use to base my designs on. Much easier then measuring on site.yourself or even scanning in a plot and drawing over it. I found that virtually all the architects and engineers here used AutoCAD as well. Detail sheets from hundreds of manufacturers are all in one of the AutoCAD file formats. Everyone spoke AutoCAD but me.

I felt like I was being forced into it, so I bought AutoCAD LT - 749.00.

AutoCAD LT is just different enough from Dynascape to make it painful. I felt like I was learning it all aver again. I missed the cool image palette in Dynascape. I ended up making my own images. Soon I was faster drawing with AutoCAD. It seems like thousands of software companies (even Garden Graphics) makes some sort of cool add on for AutoCAD (not all of them are worth a nickel though). The program didn't lock up on large designs like Dynascape either.

I felt like I wasted my time with Dynascape but that isn't really true. Dynascape was a great first step for me. I was totally new to CAD and to start with a bare bones CAD program like AutoCAD LT would have been tough. As always, I was very busy and really didn't feel like I had time to learn everything I needed to know or take one of the numerous AutoCAD classes available.

Dynascape a great for a design/build company where 99% of the jobs are medium sized residential. That, in my opinion, is the Dynascape niche. I’m not familiar with the other programs you mentioned.

If you start to design larger, more complicated jobs and/or if you move more into the design only realm, I believe you will eventually need to become fluent in some form of AutoCAD, 3D Max or other Autodesk product. Virtually everyone uses it. Even the colleges teach it to drafting, design and architecture students. AutoCAD is pretty much the cornerstone of CAD.

So my suggestion, make the move to AutoCAD now. Especially since you already have some CAD experience. The LT program is cheaper if you don't want to spend the money on the 3D version.

Take the info for what it’s worth to you. I hope it helps.

[chesie]

JP-


Did you make a decision on which program? Curious to see what you decided on.

[springfever]

I can not say enough about Pro Landscape. I have used it for six years and buy the upgrade every year. One design a year pays for the upgrade. This program has allowed me to convey my ideas to clients in ways I could not have dreamed of. Especially the digital photo imaging. We all know it is just an idealistic elevation drawing, but my clients see it as innovative. It is also a lot faster to produce for me personally. The main thing to remember is that no matter what program you choose, it is a tool. It can be a very powerful tool, so learn as much as you can about it. Good luck, and if I can answer any Pro Landscape questions, just let me know.

[AUHortman]

Spring I have used Prolandscape for about a year now. My digital camera just went out on me so I am in the market for a new one. Just wondering what camera you use. Anyone for that matter. I had been using a Kodak Easyshare DX6490 4 megapixal but was kind of looking to upgrade.

Originally posted by springfever
I can not say enough about Pro Landscape. I have used it for six years and buy the upgrade every year. One design a year pays for the upgrade. This program has allowed me to convey my ideas to clients in ways I could not have dreamed of. Especially the digital photo imaging. We all know it is just an idealistic elevation drawing, but my clients see it as innovative. It is also a lot faster to produce for me personally. The main thing to remember is that no matter what program you choose, it is a tool. It can be a very powerful tool, so learn as much as you can about it. Good luck, and if I can answer any Pro Landscape questions, just let me know.

[NCSULandscaper]

Originally posted by springfever
I can not say enough about Pro Landscape. I have used it for six years and buy the upgrade every year. One design a year pays for the upgrade. This program has allowed me to convey my ideas to clients in ways I could not have dreamed of. Especially the digital photo imaging. We all know it is just an idealistic elevation drawing, but my clients see it as innovative. It is also a lot faster to produce for me personally. The main thing to remember is that no matter what program you choose, it is a tool. It can be a very powerful tool, so learn as much as you can about it. Good luck, and if I can answer any Pro Landscape questions, just let me know.

I agree, i also use Pro and its paid for itself many times over. Every design we come up with when we "bid" a job and are told they will get other prices, once they see the designs, they never bother to get other bids.

[springfever]

AUHORTMAN,

I have an Olympus Model No. C-3020 Zoom Camera. I have had it for Five years. I love it. It is a little pricier (around $500), but has been worth every penny. The only thing I wish was different is the zoom. It has a 3x zoom. It would be great to be able to zoom even more. It is a 3.2 megapixel camera. I can print pictures on my printer and it looks like real professionally made photos. It connects via USB port and the software it really easy to use.

[AUHortman]

Spring,

I appreciate the reply. I'll check that camera out. Anyone have any other suggestions.

[Stonehenge]

Nikons and Canons tend to be the class of the digital cameras - they were the first to bridge the gap between professional digital cameras and consumer digital cameras. You may spend $800-$1500 on a good one.

If your budget isn't that high, there's a whole host of cameras that will probably fit the bill. I will say that we recently bought a Sony Cybershot W50, and were disappointed with it.

We also have a couple very old Kodaks, a Nikon Coolpix (great for everyday photos), and a Minolta Dimage (we use for higher end pics, but the day is coming that this will need to be replaced by an upper-end Canon or Nikon).

[oakleaf]

By the way - A huge thank you to the postings in this very thread which originally led me a while back to this site when searching for help on exaclty this subject. I was searching for ways to add to Autocad and the field was SO much clearer after having read this thread.
For info, we do conceptual work with SketchUp, Master plans on AutoCad based off a site survey (huge timesaver as Inspired stated). Now I'm waiting like a kid at Christmas for Eaglepoint's LANDCADD modules which should arrive this week as Autocad Addons. I'll let you know how those go...

[scaper27]

I just bought the new Pro Landscape and am still learning it. Very detailed. It is my first design program. But so far i like it.

[Robert T]

I also just purchased Landscape Pro. I bought it at the Gie in KY few weeks ago.
I have never used auto cad before and had little trouble taking it out of the box and using it from the demo i got at the show. When i did get snagged up the tutorial was enough to get me in the right directon.
The imaging on this program is very very simple to use.
as far as a camera goes I have a Canon Rebel XT they are selling for under 750 now and work really well the lens that came with it is a pretty wide ange shot so it works well with the imaging software

Robert