[PSUscaper]

this question is more directed to Mr. Dynascape, but figure I'd ask it here to see what people think.

the subscription to my program just ended......to renew, it seems to be a $400 a year charge.

Does this not sound a bit steep????

Does not the cost of the program cover the costs of operating on line support?

All I want from the online services is plant care packages....I have to seriously question if the plant care package is worth $400.00 a year when I can buy a book and photo copy the stuff for almost free.

Also, here is my BIG problem.

The charge is also to receive updates.......AKA....repair screw ups with the program.

So, in other words, I HAVE TO PAY $400 a year to FIX my program????

I could be wrong, but WHY am I PAYING to to have something fixed???????????????????????????????????

This is absolutely rediculous. If I install a landscape and I screw up, I FIX IT FOR FREE. Is this not the way business works????

I seriously question the "HIDDEN" fees dynascape is implementing, and would like to hear what others have to say, and would also like to make people interested in the program to be aware of these HIDDEN COSTS they are implementing before they purchase.

[4seasons]

400+ a year after you spend all that money for the program? wow!

[mexmr10]

I am currently using the trial version of dynascape, and was about to buy it for the full price, but if this is true...i may have to rethink it or find another suitable program.

hope someone can verify that this is true, tho

[trees]

I used to work for a software company and let me assure you that the subscription services are not just for upgrades that fix things that are "screwed up". Sure, there are often bugs that get fixed, but often you can download those service packs for free (don't know if dynascapes does that, but they probably do, and if they don't -- should).

Software is constantly improving. Plant layout tools, hardscape tools, cut & fill, hatches, reporting, interfaces with other useful programs, are all important additions for a lot of people and can really help improve productivity, not to mention security features that need to change in a world where viruses and bugs are advancing all the time.

We, as contractors, often offer maintenance packages with our services, which do not come free. Think of your software subscription service as just that. It includes all your tech support, plus the hard work and improvement efforts of a professional software team.

Personally, I use VectorWorks (have for about 7 years) and can assure you that the upgrades made to that program have made a HUGE difference in my design productivity and presentation. Also, I have had the opportunity to speak with the people at Garden Graphics and know for a fact that they're not trying to scam anyone out of any money.

You purchased a high-end design software. The subscription service is not mandatory. Don't pay it if you're content with the software as is. If, however, several years from now you want to upgrade, it may cost you more to purchase the software new and re-learn a system which may have markedly changed from what you currently know.

Is it a big hit to take??? Maybe. Is it worth it??? Can be.

Don't know if that helps, but thought it might do some good to hear some of this from a 3rd (and uncompensated) party.

[syzer]

Wow, seems a bit steep. I am glad I bought pro landscape =)

[Lanelle]

Just remember syzer that Drafix will charge you to upgrade to their latest version also.

[syzer]

Yeah I know, and I'm ok with that. They need some money to get their development strong. $400.00 a year is not unacceptable, but just seems steep for the life of the software. I have already gotten three nice patches from Draffix since I bought it for free.

[PSUscaper]

honestly, $400 dollars isn't that big of a hit......if you are a big company.

But I'm not.....but, I really like the program. For myself, I do a lot of little stuff with it. I liked the plant care package. I like the program BUT do find it developing more and more quarks that I would like fixed.

So, is $400 dollars a lot of money considering I can make that in one design easily.....no. But, for a small company like myself, yes, 400 dollars is a lot.

Lets see, fuels up, plants prices are up, vehicles cost a lot, equipment needs repair, brick prices are up, insurance is up, blah, blah, blah. At the end of the year, that $400 dollars gets thrown in with the rest of the bills and you know what.....that bill starts to hurt.

Basically, just getting beat up on for being small guy. Suppose I shouldn't even need such a program. Maybe I'll go back to my old intellicad (which worked quite well) and call it a day. Then I can price my jobs a little bit lower while everyone else is going higher to cover their software upgrades. May just be the way to go.

Bottom line, I'm starting to trim the 'fat' from my budget.....and a $400 dollar upgrade charge to is not something I can see working into a budget. I will run the program until it breaks, and guess I can live withour all the bell's and whistles.

[DynaSCAPEr]

Looks like I'm a little late to this party - my apologies.

The $400 per year subscription gets you three things:

• All Application Updates for the period
• Unlimited access to toll free technical support
• Access to our online plant encylopedia

In my opinion, the cost is easily justified, and the benefits outweigh the costs by a large margin.

Should you buy another piece of software without an upgrade policy, you'll be hit up for upgrades at some point should you need them - and you will. The way our subscription works, you'll always have our latest most up to date version, without having to worry about upgrade costs you haven't budgeted for. $400 dollars a year or $1200 every three years - is there really a difference?

In addition, you have unlimited access to our toll free support at any time - I'm sure many of us have heard the horror stories about poor folks who are forced to pay $$ for 'technical support' for various computer related issues.

Lastly, you have access to our online plant encyclopedia, which allows you to search plant culture information from within our CAD tool, and produce plant care reports.

We're not trying to beat on anyone for being a small operation, in fact, we are a small operation ourselves, and as such can sympathize with many of the pressures you feel.

We have to pay our staff to update our plant encyclopedia, to answer the phones and respond to tech support, and to develop our products on an ongoing basis. Anyone will tell you, software development is expensive.

As far as our updates are concerned, we're not just fixing bugs, we're adding new features. I'm currently involved in several large projects that we hope to bring to market - that will be given (read: for no additional charge) to our existing users as part of their subscriptions. These subscriptions give us a stable revenue base which enables us to take on larger, more longterm projects, which in turn will provide greater value to our loyal customer base.

We've set ourselves the lofty goal of helping to "professionalize the industry" through the development of intelligent, green focused tools. We're often challenged because for the majority, the value of the intelligent application of technology in their business is not apparent. Technology changes, and software needs to be maintained, just like a piece of heavy machinery.

So, to some $400 seems like a lot. If the benefit you receive from using our latest tools and staying connected to us is worth less than $400 a year to your business, you probably shouldn't renew your subscription. We most certainly aren't trying to fleece anyone or punish them for being small businesses. At that point, we'd thank you for your business, and urge you to keep an eye on where we'll be going from here - we'd like the opportunity to change your mind.

Hope this helps,

F.

[secondnature]

Hello! In reference to Dynascape and Customer Service....

I am currently in the midst of my busy design season. I have two designs ready to complete with plant labeling and plant info packages.

I have Dynascape/Iris 3.0 and have used this program since 2003. I have been very satisfied with its performance, except for a few issues had when I upgraded operating systems and the like. I am not a subscribing member, as I am happy with what I have as far as features go.

I am now experiencing a issue with not being able to access IRIS both independently and in collaboration with the Dynascape program. when I call to request paid tech support (to the tune of $85 per incident) I am told that that fee does not really cover most of the per-incident support they give, and that they will, this time, help me out, for the fee. But I will need to pay for a subscription ($400 annually) to get any further assistance.

Now, because I am three years delinquent in my subscribing, it will cost me 3 x $400, or (gulp) $1200 to do this!!

I feel like I am being strong-armed into paying to continue using my program that I am already happy with to get "free" tech support and all the bells and whistles that I am not interested in.

And, I understand that they are not in biz for just the fun of it. They need, tho, to make some options for designers like myself who dont feel the need to have all the "shock and awe" extras that some designers may feel they need to have and offer.

I paid for a funtioning program when I purchased it. It was made to work with my operating system (Windows XP). When I upgraded my operating system from 2000 to XP, I had to even spend more $ to buy the upgrade vs the update version to accomodate this program.
I feel that I should at least be able to get paid tech support to help me maintain my current program.

Thanks for listening!! I am so glad I found this forum!!

Karla
Second Nature Landscape Design
Beaverton, Oregon

[DynaSCAPEr]

Hi Karla,

I'm not sure I completely understand your situation, but you should be able to get paid technical support at any time if you are not an active subscriber.

Should you experience further issues, you should be able to call again, and request and receive paid technical support again.

The only problem I can see is that if your version is several years old, we may not be able to actively support it at a certain point. Even though you may be happy with what you have, we are still moving on, and so our familiarity with your version (now three years old) will continually diminish. This is really no different than any other software company - we don't have the resources to support every version of our software indefinitely.

With regards to upgrading to the current version, after a number of years you will essentially have to repurchase the current version to get up to date - again, this is no different than what you'll see elsewhere. You're not being punished for being delinquent (subscribing or not is your choice) - should we give you some sort of price break, we'd be unfair to our paying subscribers who have been working with us all along to help us improve our product offerings.

If I misunderstood anything you've said, let me know. I'm not 100% certain of how our support policy applies to versions as far back as three years, but if you are being refused support , let me know who you have been speaking with, and I'll look into it for you.

Hope this helps,

F.

[secondnature]

Fred,

The last phone conversation I had with Jodie for tech support, it was clear to me that Dynascape was not interested to take on my incident, even for $85.

It was explained to me that most issues take many hours to resolve, and the $85 does not cover that sort of time. Understandable. But is it worth turning a happy customer into dissatisfied customer with the absence of good customer service? The goal was to get me to upgrade. It is not understood that I am happy with what I have. I would not utilize all the new bells and whistles that are currently available. So, really to me, it feels like I am handing over $$ that would otherwise go in my pocket to get me something I dont need. I am not even sure it would repair my issue!!!

Yes, I understand the law of obsolete, especially in the high tech world. But....last week I was very happy and satisfied with my program, and then literally over night something changed. On both my laptop and my PC. I cannot finish my work load as I have been able to before this issue came about. I had a very functionable program. And, I have no way of getting assistance from the company that created it.

That is very frustrating.

Karla
Second Nature Landscape Design

Originally posted by DynaSCAPEr
Hi Karla,

I'm not sure I completely understand your situation, but you should be able to get paid technical support at any time if you are not an active subscriber.

Should you experience further issues, you should be able to call again, and request and receive paid technical support again.

The only problem I can see is that if your version is several years old, we may not be able to actively support it at a certain point. Even though you may be happy with what you have, we are still moving on, and so our familiarity with your version (now three years old) will continually diminish. This is really no different than any other software company - we don't have the resources to support every version of our software indefinitely.

With regards to upgrading to the current version, after a number of years you will essentially have to repurchase the current version to get up to date - again, this is no different than what you'll see elsewhere. You're not being punished for being delinquent (subscribing or not is your choice) - should we give you some sort of price break, we'd be unfair to our paying subscribers who have been working with us all along to help us improve our product offerings.

If I misunderstood anything you've said, let me know. I'm not 100% certain of how our support policy applies to versions as far back as three years, but if you are being refused support , let me know who you have been speaking with, and I'll look into it for you.

Hope this helps,

F.

[PSUscaper]

Funny thing.....

I just pulled out my old copy of visio intellicad, thinks its about 10 years old....and you know what.....it still works!....fine!

This is the HUGE problem I'm starting to have with this crap. Ok, we need upgrades to keep current and on the cutting edge.....I guess I can see paying for that.

BUT.......I have to throw my program out every 3 years now???? So, according to this theory, when I take my 5 year old skid steer to the repair shop to fix something, I shouldn't be surprised when they say, "sorry man, we can't fix this anymore....you will have to buy a new one"...

Being that 3/4 of my competition is still using hand drawn pencil sketches on grid paper with the $19.95 tree template they got at staples, maybe I should think about going back to my intellicad and be happy.

Really, how can you tell someone that you won't fix something that they paid good money for. Here's a question......3-5 years ago, was there a statement in the software agreement stating that the program will be unusable in 3-5 years?????? And, on another note, it funny, but when I talk to a dynascape salesmen at the last trade show, he sure the hek didn't mention the fact that I would HAVE to buy a new program every 3 years. Why is that.

I'm sure I'll do fine telling people there paver walkway 'MAY JUST DROP INTO A GIANT HOLE AND DISAPPEAR INTO THE EARTH WITHING THE NEXT THREE YEARS" .....I'll sell a lot of products that way.

I've been using a 99 version of quickbooks and guess what....it still works fine. Do I need upgrades to make it work better.......sure......BUT.....do I need upgrades to make it work???? NOPE....

Sorry to sound a little bit on the hot side, but this is just rediculous.

Dynascapes is a great product. I would recommend it to anyone... but jeesh, could you be a little more 'customer supportless'

[secondnature]

You speak the truth, that is for sure. These companies have to ask themselves....is it worth all the negative rap to do what it takes to not assist their customer base customers in the continuation of an adequate program?

I just want a system that works. It does not have to wash my windows and pull weeds in my yard (well THAT WOULD be nice!)! I just need a functioning program!

Karla

Originally posted by pennscapes
Funny thing.....

I just pulled out my old copy of visio intellicad, thinks its about 10 years old....and you know what.....it still works!....fine!

This is the HUGE problem I'm starting to have with this crap. Ok, we need upgrades to keep current and on the cutting edge.....I guess I can see paying for that.

BUT.......I have to throw my program out every 3 years now???? So, according to this theory, when I take my 5 year old skid steer to the repair shop to fix something, I shouldn't be surprised when they say, "sorry man, we can't fix this anymore....you will have to buy a new one"...

Being that 3/4 of my competition is still using hand drawn pencil sketches on grid paper with the $19.95 tree template they got at staples, maybe I should think about going back to my intellicad and be happy.

Really, how can you tell someone that you won't fix something that they paid good money for. Here's a question......3-5 years ago, was there a statement in the software agreement stating that the program will be unusable in 3-5 years?????? And, on another note, it funny, but when I talk to a dynascape salesmen at the last trade show, he sure the hek didn't mention the fact that I would HAVE to buy a new program every 3 years. Why is that.

I'm sure I'll do fine telling people there paver walkway 'MAY JUST DROP INTO A GIANT HOLE AND DISAPPEAR INTO THE EARTH WITHING THE NEXT THREE YEARS" .....I'll sell a lot of products that way.

I've been using a 99 version of quickbooks and guess what....it still works fine. Do I need upgrades to make it work better.......sure......BUT.....do I need upgrades to make it work???? NOPE....

Sorry to sound a little bit on the hot side, but this is just rediculous.

Dynascapes is a great product. I would recommend it to anyone... but jeesh, could you be a little more 'customer supportless'

[PSUscaper]

I think its kind of part of this grand 'brain washing' technology trend that is going on in general.

I think I had a 333 computer for about 8 years that ran intellicad and autocad LT just fine. Granted, Dynascape makes things look a bit nicer, but in all honesty, nothing is different with the program than the old 10 year old programs.

To be honest, I can actually render a drawing much faster using my old Autocad.

When it comes to the basics, nothing has changed with these drafting programs. You don't need 1/1000 of the power that computers now have to run a drafting program. It's all the bells and whistle junk that screws everything up and demands all the power.

Yet, with all this new and improved crap, my dynascapes still gets locked up when I'm drawing a long spline, set the hatching pattern to high, importing a scan for basemap layout (ya, old programs did that years ago too), etc. etc..... .....no different than my 59.99, 15 year old intellicad did.

Pretty much like the truck industry.....they are more concerned about putting dual cup holders in the truck rather than making a truck that won't fall apart in 3 years.