[tfld]

if this file type works...

[tfld]

okay...

auto CAD and hand overlay sketch 6-8 hrs base map to final layout.

[Bill Schwab]

That's purdee tfdl! Looks like a Monet we saw in the Chicago Art Institute.

[GLAN]

Concept looks nice

The boulder outcropping........is that already there? or do you have to install?

Steps stone/slate?........or paver?............If they are stone/slate, I would like that the best cause it would tie into the boulders.

Looks like a very nice layout.

And I am guessing that is the North side of the residence......being that there are no windows?

Not sure of the plant material?

[dan deutekom]

I will be honest and say that if this is a drawing to show a concept to a client it looks great but I certainly could not build this project from a drawing like this or work out a price because the required detailing is not there. This is not a bad thing if you are just using a drawing such as this as a design concept/selling tool but it certainly does not cut the mustard as a construction plan.

[tfld]

Dan,

This is stuff we do everyday in Colorado and especially with this company. Cheak walls and slab flagstone steps are standard and expected to be crafted on site. All of our plan drawings go otd as concepts, even our kitchens and sometimes decks and arbors.

But perhaps coming from a different region I could see how a plan like this would be difficult to read and estimate. Although, I also typed the estimate, pulling exact measurements from autocad and spending time on site. Basically though, this stuff is our bread and butter.

About 50% of the stone will be imported. There is virtually an unlimited supply of moss sandstone on site, but we will import about ten tons of large 1-2 ton boulders, along with the sandstone slabs, etc.

I could go into construction detail, but as a design/build we just dont need it, this is bread and butter. BTW, the project sold for about 38K.

The plant material probably consists of just a few different types of plants, trees, and perennials, which will be determined on-site. We usually just give the client a planting budget, which in this case I think is around 5k. Being that this site sits at around 8500' above sea level, we have limited plant and tree choices as well.

-n

[dan deutekom]

I have priced and built much more elaborate landscapes using nothing more than a crude sketch on a napkin to show the concept. A drawing like this is great for selling the project and even building such a project if you are the company that did the design. This is because a lot of the details are known or assumed. The big problem with this drawing would be if it were to be used as an instrument in a bidding situation. Without details such as measurements, construction material and plant varieties and sizes each company bidding would interpret the job differently. I would not consider this a construction drawing. A competent landscaper would not need every little construction detail shown but you do need the basics.

As shown by Glans post this drawing left many unanswered questions.

[tfld]

" I wouldnt consider this a construction drawing..."

Neither would I, thats why its called a "concept plan." (tough to read lower portion of the title block).

If this drawing were going out to bid for other companies there would be cd's, elevations, and multiple sheets. Obviously, I wouldn't feel comfortable handing this drawing off to another company with 300 square feet of decking, etc.. I beleieve we charged about $800 for this plan, aside from the actual construction, which pays for a conceptual design. We've discussed submitting drawings on some projects including a conceptual plan, and multiple Cd's and elevations. Plans like this are more the order of architectural design firms not intending to build the project. A design project like this is impractical for a small design/build like us and would cost upwards of $2-3k.

Still, I'm not sure if I understand your comment about estimating. If this plan was going to bid, it would specify specific plant material, deck material and square footage, construction detail, step material and detail, etc, etc. Otherwise, being as I was the one who made the initial site visit, created the base map, drew the plan, and wrote the estimate, I would say this plan is completely sufficient for estimating purposes, again, be it I am the one doing the estimating, which would IMO be included witht he plan as part of that 2-3k package if we were submitting this for bids. It would at least include a detailed material takeoff and/or budget study.

Basically, the feedback I was looking for on this drawing, was how well it reads for contractor, or client, and how the layout looks aesthetically.

Anyway, I'm tired and rambling, so have a good evening.

-n

[tfld]

At second glance, I guess I do leave alot to be assumed, but this is mainly a habit I've created working for a highly-skilled design/build. Much of our finest work is credited to on-site changes and attention to detail far byond the scope of our conceptual plans.

Point taken, sorry, didnt mena to come off like an @$$#*%!

-n

[GLAN]

No worries tf..

We're not setting out to chew you a new one..

To be quite honest........to present that to the clientel. I would be proud myself if that was what I had to show the customer and be standing tall behind it as well....

[dan deutekom]

Never meant to offend. If I could create drawings that good I would be working in a whole different way.